Bugger

[wbosher]

Just a little off topic, but related...what about the cleaning side?

I am pretty anal when it comes to sanitising, I sanitise everything, sometimes twice. When it comes to cleaning though, I use no more than a clean cloth and hot water. No cleaning products.

After a brew I'll clean everything with a cloth and hot water, until it looks clean, then give everything a thorough rinse in hot water. Then I'll sanitise with starsan.

When I'm ready to do my next brew, usually a few weeks later, I'll again sanitise with starsan.

Is there a problem with not using some sort of cleaning product? The way I see it is if it looks clean it probably is, then starsan takes care of the bugs. Opinions?

 

[alawishus]

I havent sanitised my kegs in years...is that bad?

alawishus

 

[wbosher]

I havent sanitised my kegs in years...is that bad?

alawishus

Throw them out and buy new ones...throw them in my direction if you like.

 

[Nick JD]

Just a little off topic, but related...what about the cleaning side?

I am pretty anal when it comes to sanitising, I sanitise everything, sometimes twice. When it comes to cleaning though, I use no more than a clean cloth and hot water. No cleaning products.

After a brew I'll clean everything with a cloth and hot water, until it looks clean, then give everything a thorough rinse in hot water. Then I'll sanitise with starsan.

When I'm ready to do my next brew, usually a few weeks later, I'll again sanitise with starsan.

Is there a problem with not using some sort of cleaning product? The way I see it is if it looks clean it probably is, then starsan takes care of the bugs. Opinions?

I would be happier to fill a fermenter with wort that had been filled with a cap of napisan and warm water overnight and rinsed, than one that had just been wiped out and starsaned.

 

[Juzdu]

Consistent information from retailers would help. This "Stericlean" was delivered with my home brew starter kit:

http://www.aussiebrewmakers.com.au/retail_...54600_item.html

I asked them what was in it, 'coz on another thread someone said it was caustic soda. The pack says "Contents: 90% Alkali salts", and that it is "Suitable for washing and sterilising all equipment". Tell me that won't make the doc's head explode! Anyway, they got back to me and said "Stericlean does not contain any sodium, caustic soda or sodium hydroxide. Its main components are soap and chlorine"
The instructions that come with it say to mix 2-3 teaspoons per 5lt water.

I bought another 1kg of Stericlean from DHBW, here: http://discounthomebrewwarehouse.com.au/in...products_id=335

It says: Caustic cleaner incorporated with chlorine steriliser. Great for removing plaque on glass and stainless steel
The packs says "Contains: Trisodium Phosphate & sodium dichloro isocyanurate" and suggests I use 1-2 teasoons per litre of water.

Both called "Stericlean", but are they the same? How the hell can a non-chemist/scientist tell????

 

[drsmurto]

Consistent information from retailers would help. This "Stericlean" was delivered with my home brew starter kit:

http://www.aussiebrewmakers.com.au/retail_...54600_item.html

I asked them what was in it, 'coz on another thread someone said it was caustic soda. The pack says "Contents: 90% Alkali salts", and that it is "Suitable for washing and sterilising all equipment". Tell me that won't make the doc's head explode! Anyway, they got back to me and said "Stericlean does not contain any sodium, caustic soda or sodium hydroxide. Its main components are soap and chlorine"
The instructions that come with it say to mix 2-3 teaspoons per 5lt water.

I bought another 1kg of Stericlean from DHBW, here: http://discounthomebrewwarehouse.com.au/in...products_id=335

It says: Caustic cleaner incorporated with chlorine steriliser. Great for removing plaque on glass and stainless steel
The packs says "Contains: Trisodium Phosphate & sodium dichloro isocyanurate" and suggests I use 1-2 teasoons per litre of water.

Both called "Stericlean", but are they the same? How the hell can a non-chemist/scientist tell????

Ask for the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for both products. They are legally obliged to have them as part of the OH&S legislation.

Any homebrew shop that stocks chemicals (cleaners, sanitisers, salts etc) should be able to give you an MSDS or point you in the direction of one. Unless the laws have changed in the last few years.

 

[Juzdu]

I get the feeling they're the same, using the ingredients off the DHBW pack and wikipedia (fwiw):

Trisodium phosphate - is a cleaning agent, food additive, stain remover and degreaser....was at one time extensively used in formulations for a wide variety of consumer grade soaps and detergents, but ecological problems have largely ended that practice, at least in the western world. Substitutes are not as effective, but the raw chemical can be bought in bulk to add to other detergents

Sodium dichloroisocyanurate - is a chemical compound used as a disinfectant, biocide, industrial deodorant and detergent. It is found in some newer water purification tablets/filters. It is more efficient than formerly used halazone water disinfectant. Mechanism of action is the release of chlorine in low concentrations by constant rate

So there's my soap and chlorine i guess. And cleaning/disinfecting in one.

 

[wbosher]

I would be happier to fill a fermenter with wort that had been filled with a cap of napisan and warm water overnight and rinsed, than one that had just been wiped out and starsaned.

So you reckon that is just as good as the commercial cleaners that the LHBS supplies?

 

[bignath]

So you reckon that is just as good as the commercial cleaners that the LHBS supplies?

Aimed at Nick above i know, but i'll chime in early and say i reckon Napisan is better than what i can get at my local. It's a quarter of the price (last time i checked), and it does a great job.

As soon as fermenter becomes empty, i hot water rinse all the chunks and solid matter out of it, then fill it with warm/hot water and throw in a cap worth of Napisan powder.

I leave it overnight, but i've come back before after less than an hour and the thing is spotless. Empty it, hot water rinse a few times using maybe a total of 5lt's glad wrap it and store.

Hot water rinse and sanitiser, tip it out and refill with beer. Never need to go anywhere near cloths or other cleaning aids.

 

[Juzdu]

Aimed at Nick above i know, but i'll chime in early and say i reckon Napisan is better than what i can get at my local. It's a quarter of the price (last time i checked), and it does a great job.

Is it actually Napisan you buy? Or a homebrand equivalent? I read somewhere else on the forum to get the cheapest unscented napisan equivalent.....the other day in the supermarket I was in that aisle and started popping lids of to have a smell. The woolies homebrand one had a huge scent, almost knocked me out when i whiffed it. Went over to the actual Vanish Napisan brand stuff and was overwhelmed by the range..."Inwash & Soaker Oxiaction Intelligence", "Inwash & Soaker Plus Advanced", "Inwash & Soaker Oxiaction Crystal White". All Napisan brand. Then other brands such as White King, Dettol, Sard. Which do you buy?

 

[Nick JD]

So you reckon that is just as good as the commercial cleaners that the LHBS supplies?

I haven't found the need to use commercial cleaners.

 

[GalBrew]

Coles 'sensitive' napisan rip off is quite cheap, has no scent and does a great job of cleaning fermenters and kegs. I find PBW works better on hardcore stuff stuck to your kettle.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I've just been to woolies and while I was there I checked the Napisan and equivalent product range, one thing I noticed was there are variations in the % of sodium percarbonate. The one that had the highest percentage was in a purple container (can't remember the name), it had 35% compared to others as low as 25%, I think Napisan had 32%. I guess the percentage is a guide to which ones are better quality.

 

[wbosher]

Thanks Nick, might go get me some napisan. Shame we used disposables for my boy, might have already had some.

 

[Whiteferret]

Hows me setting my 45th brew of the year today (somehow fell a week behind) "sanitising" with sodium percarbonate?
Half-arsed sage advice, yes, but the tea-leaves and goat intestines say it should work!

Gotta ask, how quick are you drinking these brews?
Either you have a big stock of beer, or have simply drank them before some of the infections have taken hold.
Maybe you should let them age to let those flavours mellow/colonies to grow. :chug:

 

[Juzdu]

Gotta ask, how quick are you drinking these brews?

I'm kinda hoping he's sharing them with mates, 'coz I thought the same...20 odd litres of beer a week over 45 weeks would not make for a healthy liver, surely!

 

[Beerisyummy]

Apologies, i should have made it clear i was after evidence not of the anecdotal variety. A subtle but important difference.

Just tagging along as a newbie to brewing.
It's a very interesting topic.

It's funny how anecdotal evidence plays a huge part in the motivation behind many scientific studies. Without it there would often be no reason to ask "why?".

Without chewing up anymore bandwidth. Good read so far. Different opinions all sharing the same sentiment without any real name calling.
I am the newbie reading this thread and I appreciate the shared wisdom.
Cheers
Ross.

 

[dicko]

You can always tell when the full moon has passed when the whole trend tones down to an acceptable level

Cheers

 

[QldKev]

Head stuck in the sand?

People advocating half arsed approaches to sanitation are not useful for the new brewer/forum member who sees people reporting 'I don't sanitise and I've never had an infection in decades' and may take that as some form of ok to follow said half arsed approach. It's not. You have been lucky and that assumes you have the knowledge to know what the various infections taste like. I'm being generous and nice.

Sanitation is critical to brewing and should be the first thing people try to get right. Your approach is lazy and risky and it should be pointed out for those two elements.

My dad smoked for 50 years and never got cancer!


Clean, clean, clean and then sanatise. If you can't be bothered doing that then piss off from this forum as we are trying to make great beer.

To the OP, fingers crossed you will get away with it. It will just come down to how much infection has set in and if you can taste it, hopefully none.


QldKev

(not aimed at the OP) Why is it the noobs that always want proof we need to sanatise?

 

[QldKev]

I havent sanitised my kegs in years...is that bad?

alawishus

Probably not, since you haven't used them