"Bronzed Brews" Home brewing old Australian Beers

[Rod]

I am a stove top brewer

are the recipes all grain

or will I be able to make some

 

[Korev]

I am a stove top brewer

are the recipes all grain

or will I be able to make some

Yes the recipes are all grain - I am not sure how they would turn out when using extract which tends to have blends of malts and possibly adjuncts such as wheat

There are plenty of sites/books that detail how to convert from AG to Extract - otherwise is it time to move to BIAB?

Cheers
Peter

 

[Korev]

I find this book fascinating, being a Pommy migrant I have a good knowledge of the history of British brewing but until now, Australia has been a "black hole". Most of what I thought I knew about Australian brewing has been blown away.

They put sugar in the wort to make it more drinkable for the six o'clock swill. Wrong.
As soon as refrigeration became available breweries switched almost entirely to lagers. Wrong.
We have little to no knowledge of what hops they used before POR. Wrong.
We can't recreate old recipes because the yeast strains are long gone. Wrong.

I haven't even looked at the recipes yet, still delving into the narrative of the book and so far I feel like I've done five rounds with Mike Tyson :blink:

Not a real criticism but in the event of a second edition perhaps the quoted source material could be printed in a slightly different font face / weight as sometimes in the more detailed passages, especially with the more modern 20th Century sources it's a bit hard to distinguish between the Author's words and the text being quoted. Just a nitpick.

BTW for some of the very early 20th Century and late 19th Century ales I'm considering using a Burton Union yeast, water treatment as per the era and doing a fair bit of rousing.

Hi Bribie

Your comment about the quoted material is a fair point - I originally used italics within the quote marks but I felt that using italics was hard work on the eyes. So I ended up just going with the quote marks.

Late 19th century both Tooths and Tooheys were using Burton Unions for cleansing by the early 20th century 'skimming' was in vogue So WLP023 Burton Ale for Unions and perhaps WLP037 Yorkshire square ale or WLP017 Whitbread for skimming - for both methods the first ~ 24-36 hours was in the starting rounds then dropped to unions or squares so a fair bit of oxygen added so rousing would seem to be a good option.

Ref Tyson have you checked the condition of your ears lately?

Cheers
Peter

 

[AJS2154]

Hey Korev / Peter,

Wonderful we can communicate directly with the author......and since we have that opportunity I am going to put you on the spot.

Q) Could you please nominate your top 3 brews from the book, in order for best second best etc. Reasons why would be great too.

Please don't be a big girl's blouse and say something like "oohhh, that's like asking me which is my favourite child". We all know we have a favourite child, and it's never the red head with freckles, so go hard and give us your favs.

PS. For all the rangas reading this post.....back in your box, I am only joking......we all love readheads not

 

[Korev]

Hey Korev / Peter,

Wonderful we can communicate directly with the author......and since we have that opportunity I am going to put you on the spot.

Q) Could you please nominate your top 3 brews from the book, in order for best second best etc. Reasons why would be great too.

Please don't be a big girl's blouse and say something like "oohhh, that's like asking me which is my favourite child". We all know we have a favourite child, and it's never the red head with freckles, so go hard and give us your favs.

PS. For all the rangas reading this post.....back in your box, I am only joking......we all love readheads not

No worries - no squibbing - here you go my personal favourites are

#1 1928 Bock p 329 as brewed by a certain Mr. B. Cranston - all the flavour characteristics of a Bock but around 4.4% ABV a wonderful quaffing beer - very moreish
#2 1936 Oatmeal Stout p193 also brewed by Mr C - wonderful flavour, great drinkability, and so smooooooth
#3 1917 Crystal Ale p281 a classic lawnmower beer - dry and crisp with a bitter lemon flavour just the job for hot Sydney days

a close run for #3 is the 1916 Pale Ale that I am currently drinking similar grist but a bit more alcohol at around 5 %


Who else has had a go at a recipe from the book and how did it turn out??

Cheers
Peter

 

[WhiteLomu]

Just finished reading it. Great book.
The amount of sugar used in some recipes is staggering.
Wondered which recipes were the favourites. Good to know which they are.
Cheers

 

[jphowman]

I've just dry hopped a stout that I modelled on Tooheys Oatmeal Stout, Though I just used a bunch of whatever malt I had on hand. I made my own invert sugar based on this thread.
I'm going to try to brew a XXX soon as well.

 

[AJS2154]

You are a champion, and a good sport, Peter. Thanks for being involved.

I am absolutely loving that book mate.

 

[Korev]

You are a champion, and a good sport, Peter. Thanks for being involved.

I am absolutely loving that book mate.

No problem - it's good to have feedback

Peter

 

[jasonmac72]

Western Sydney Brewers are discussing having a "Bronzed Brews" themed night soon

 

[Randai]

So I have a question (haven't finished the XXX/Old chapter yet) or maybe I've missed it, within the book.

It seems that XXX or Old or "Australian Dark Ale" which I think is called these days could compare to two types of English beer.

Is this the same thing as an English Mild Ale? even though it appears to have gone through a similar but not as dramatic transition that the Mild Ales in the UK/England went through.

Or does it somehow come from the "Old Ales" that are close to barelywines and then progressed into a weaker variant as time went on and becamse something all of its own.

Edit:
As well I was wondering Peter, loved the book so far (over 60% through), are you looking at doing another one in the future that expands out further into the other states? I'd be really interested to see what was happening outside of NSW. Or do you think that they were much the same?

 

[Korev]

Western Sydney Brewers are discussing having a "Bronzed Brews" themed night soon

I would be pleased to come along and do some Q&A. Please let me know when and where.

Cheers
Peter

 

[Korev]

So I have a question (haven't finished the XXX/Old chapter yet) or maybe I've missed it, within the book.

It seems that XXX or Old or "Australian Dark Ale" which I think is called these days could compare to two types of English beer.

Is this the same thing as an English Mild Ale? even though it appears to have gone through a similar but not as dramatic transition that the Mild Ales in the UK/England went through.

Or does it somehow come from the "Old Ales" that are close to barelywines and then progressed into a weaker variant as time went on and becamse something all of its own.

Edit:
As well I was wondering Peter, loved the book so far (over 60% through), are you looking at doing another one in the future that expands out further into the other states? I'd be really interested to see what was happening outside of NSW. Or do you think that they were much the same?

Ref Old - I don't want to spoil the ending for you in Chapter 8.

As to your other question I would love to get access to original source brewing logs in other States - then I could provide more insights into historical beers, and brewing practices plus some recreations.

So if anyone here has brewery contacts who are in a position to grant me access to brewing archives in Launceston, Hobart, Melbourne, Adelaide, and Brisbane and also know where the brewing archive went after Swan was closed please PM me

Cheers
Peter

 

[paulyman]

Planning on brewing the 1844 Tooth's XXX in the very near future. Plan is to try a bottle or 2 at christmas and then save the rest for the following christmas.

 

[Randai]

I am planning on doing the Resch's XXX from 1917. It has a final gravity of 1.016, which seems quite high even given the 65%-75% of the European Ale yeast listed.
The mashing is slightly higher, but would that be enough to give those few more gravity points? Or should I halt the fermentation, crash it and then just keg it when it gets to the expected FG?
Just asking if there is something I am missing and someone else could point it out for me.

 

[Korev]

I am planning on doing the Resch's XXX from 1917. It has a final gravity of 1.016, which seems quite high even given the 65%-75% of the European Ale yeast listed.
The mashing is slightly higher, but would that be enough to give those few more gravity points? Or should I halt the fermentation, crash it and then just keg it when it gets to the expected FG?
Just asking if there is something I am missing and someone else could point it out for me.

To get the high FG consider also the following ideas
- a shorter mash time is in the recipe (60 mins) I normally would mash for 90 minutes total incl. mash out, you could go shorter than 60, you would know how your system works better than I
- you could mash a little higher say 70C
- Yes you could also a short ferment and crash cool

and you could do a combination of the above along with the European Ale yeast to get the higher FG

I have looked back in my records and I achieved 1.014 using Yorkshire Square Yeast so you hopefully should be able to get close to 1.016 say at 70C with European Ale and no crash cooling

Hope this helps - please let me know how you get on

Cheers
Peter

 

[Randai]

Will let you know Peter. I appreciate the feedback.
Planning on this weekend have made the Invert and Brewers Caramel so ready to go.

As a fan of the Tooheys old I wanted to see an example from the past, especially if it was one of the most common drinks around in Australia.

Would be really interested in trying out the Melbourne Ale yeast as well, did you end up using it at all? Any particular flavours you got from it if you did?

Also wanted to thank you again for the cracking book. Really great read.

 

[jyo]

I find this book fascinating, being a Pommy migrant I have a good knowledge of the history of British brewing but until now, Australia has been a "black hole". Most of what I thought I knew about Australian brewing has been blown away.

They put sugar in the wort to make it more drinkable for the six o'clock swill. Wrong.
As soon as refrigeration became available breweries switched almost entirely to lagers. Wrong.
We have little to no knowledge of what hops they used before POR. Wrong.
We can't recreate old recipes because the yeast strains are long gone. Wrong.

I haven't even looked at the recipes yet, still delving into the narrative of the book and so far I feel like I've done five rounds with Mike Tyson :blink:

Not a real criticism but in the event of a second edition perhaps the quoted source material could be printed in a slightly different font face / weight as sometimes in the more detailed passages, especially with the more modern 20th Century sources it's a bit hard to distinguish between the Author's words and the text being quoted. Just a nitpick.

BTW for some of the very early 20th Century and late 19th Century ales I'm considering using a Burton Union yeast, water treatment as per the era and doing a fair bit of rousing.

Was thinking British Ale II actually, Bribie.

 

[Korev]

Will let you know Peter. I appreciate the feedback.
Planning on this weekend have made the Invert and Brewers Caramel so ready to go.

As a fan of the Tooheys old I wanted to see an example from the past, especially if it was one of the most common drinks around in Australia.

Would be really interested in trying out the Melbourne Ale yeast as well, did you end up using it at all? Any particular flavours you got from it if you did?

Also wanted to thank you again for the cracking book. Really great read.

The Melbourne Ale yeast seems to give a malty profile however this is on a data point of one Pale Ale.

Peter

 

[Weizguy]

Now we want the yeast, I wonder who will be the first retailer to stock it?

It'll come out I'm sure.

Anyone interested in obtaining the Melbourne No.1 yeast to brew some beers from the "Bronzed Beers" book and not have to wait for Whitelabs to release it?

It is available from the UK , National Collection of Yeast Cultures, here.

Not a cheap option, but if you know someone who works at at academic institution, it is available at a better price. Perhaps if several people got together it could be shared and work out to be a reasonable price.

I also had a look at the NCYC website and was thinking about getting a culture direct. It's not too pricey for a piece of history.
Also spotted the West End and Southwark lager yeasts there, but no others that were named, from recognisable breweries.

Shame that WhiteLabs have excluded the primary market (we, here in Oz) from voting the Melbourne #1 yeast into production. Market bias? Maybe that point should be made apparent to Chris White.

Time to lobby WhiteLabs directly. Remember, it was the Australian brewers that really pushed W1469 back into regular production at Wyeast.

Oh, BTW, Lulu.com accepted my order for your book this morning. Well done, Peter, and thanks for filling one more piece of the historical puzzle. Looking forward to more, and getting my book signed too.
Peter, did you say where you obtained the Melbourne #1?