Brass vs SS

[QldKev]

Or a 3 piece 316SS for $14 delivered.

I've gotten quite a few sanitary fitting from this supplier, never had problems.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Whats with the "1/2" BALL VALVE" on the handle? Seems that appears on a lot of sellers valves but does it mean same brand/quality?

 

[sponge]

@ sponge, just a word of caution on that cheapy 3 piece ss valve, it is really really cheap quality and he actually sent 304 ss. Quite a bit of rust from machining swarf or whatever. Had to clean up a bit. Plastic seals in the thing are ordinary at best. To his credit he refunded the amount paid.

Hey PF, yea I have myself some slightly more expensive ones and only 304SS but was just wanting to show that going SS isn't all that expensive, even with the luxury of 3 piece valves. TBH - I have actually purchased other SS hardware from that seller without any issues. Taps were purchased elsewhere though..

Compared to the price of a lot of other brewing gear, the price of going with SS taps is fairly minimal.

 

[The Village Idiot]

So for the less than chemically minded of us ...... the use of copper pipe and brass valves in a mash tun is not the best idea??? I have an esky mash tun and recirc via a brown pump, brass fittings and copper pipe. I do want to upgrade to SS but have used the "cheaper" alternative as a prototype. Am I safe?

 

[Adr_0]

You're safe, but I would recommend a good clean of all your gear before you use it. It will corrode more than stainless and also crust up with wort - buy I can't see how stainless is immune to this.

I am about to clean my 2V system, copper/brass all through. The plan:
2hr hot soak (70°C) with PBW
Hot rinse with water
30min "passivation" with citric acid at 70°C
1 x hit water rinsr
1 x cool water rinse

If that doesn't sort me out, I don't know what will. It's a new system, but the last thing I want is for the existing crud to come off in my mash /boil as it likes to come off at those temps/pH.

 

[Adr_0]

... And a PBW / water rinse after each brew of course...

 

[Adr_0]

John Palmer's website (section 2.2.2) has some cleaning information too which is good.

 

[pk.sax]

Ffs, keep that pbw away from brass.

Copper and brass are two different beasts, copper is just fine and won't leach lead into your brew while brass in the wrong situation would.

Best thing to clean either copper or brass would be acidic cleaners, like a lemon, citric acid, vinegar, phosphoric acid etc. keep the pbw and nappisan for your ss vessels. I haven't noted anything bad happen to the copper fittings from sodium percarbonate (nappisan) but then again I mainly clean by using elbow grease and a scotch brite pad. Plastics get diligently nuked with nappisan and then starsan (nothing plastic left though). If you have brass fittings in there perhaps minimise contact with the nappisan and make sure to soak those bits afterwards in some starsan to form the protective layers.

Only and ONLY on SS kegs and nothing else I use hot caustic if I'm detecting a smell I want to get rid of or some caked on *****, used to happen to my keggles now and then, the aluminium pots are fairly easy to clean because stuff doesn't bake on as easily.

It's not hard,

Plastics: both alkaline and acid cleaners are OK
SS: both alkaline and acid cleaners are OK. Alkaline cleaners like pbw and caustic soda work really well.
Copper: best to use acidic cleaners like phosphoric acid and citrus. Can use some nappisan but don't leave it in there.
Brass: acidic cleaners only.

Look, this is from memory and general awareness. Don't crucify me for it but I reckon if you don't understand more following the above will keep you safe.

 

[pk.sax]

Hey PF, yea I have myself some slightly more expensive ones and only 304SS but was just wanting to show that going SS isn't all that expensive, even with the luxury of 3 piece valves. TBH - I have actually purchased other SS hardware from that seller without any issues. Taps were purchased elsewhere though..

Compared to the price of a lot of other brewing gear, the price of going with SS taps is fairly minimal.

Yes, I thought to try him out at that price. Basically got refunded because he supplied 304 instead of the advertised 316.... I've also bought bits from him or av-rf before and no real problems, stuff is a bit lightweight in general.
Beerbelly gets all his stuff from prochem in adelaide afaik and their price and quality are very good for peace of mind. I've got a bag of cheap ss fittings lying about that get used now and then when tinkering but not on the main mash tun/kettle, don't want to deal with leaks and stuffing around, the better tolerance bits are just a bit easier to trust.

 

[Adr_0]

Ffs, keep that pbw away from brass.

Copper and brass are two different beasts, copper is just fine and won't leach lead into your brew while brass in the wrong situation would.

Best thing to clean either copper or brass would be acidic cleaners, like a lemon, citric acid, vinegar, phosphoric acid etc. keep the pbw and nappisan for your ss vessels. I haven't noted anything bad happen to the copper fittings from sodium percarbonate (nappisan) but then again I mainly clean by using elbow grease and a scotch brite pad. Plastics get diligently nuked with nappisan and then starsan (nothing plastic left though). If you have brass fittings in there perhaps minimise contact with the nappisan and make sure to soak those bits afterwards in some starsan to form the protective layers.

Only and ONLY on SS kegs and nothing else I use hot caustic if I'm detecting a smell I want to get rid of or some caked on *****, used to happen to my keggles now and then, the aluminium pots are fairly easy to clean because stuff doesn't bake on as easily.

It's not hard,

Plastics: both alkaline and acid cleaners are OK
SS: both alkaline and acid cleaners are OK. Alkaline cleaners like pbw and caustic soda work really well.
Copper: best to use acidic cleaners like phosphoric acid and citrus. Can use some nappisan but don't leave it in there.
Brass: acidic cleaners only.

Look, this is from memory and general awareness. Don't crucify me for it but I reckon if you don't understand more following the above will keep you safe.

The PBW datasheet says it can be successfully used on brass. The coagulants/surfactants in PBW unfortunately aren't found in off the shelf citric acid or vinegar, so in lieu of that you need some elbow grease - hard to squeeze elbow grease into the inside of half inch pipes.

Or do you just mean because it's so expensive, better to save it for something it's intended for when something cheap will work almost as well?

 

[pk.sax]

Well, copper tubing cleans brilliantly with just vinegar or citric or starsan. Never seen them come out so well than when left in startsan.

Brass fittings, open them up and half the cleaning job is done right there. The rest is done by the acid.

If you are spending money on a hard plumbed system that needs CIP, then might as well go SS. Rest, just disassemble and clean.

To be honest I was told not to use caustic stuff on aluminium or brass, haven't looked too hard further because of easy viable alternatives. I was reading your process, you flush the pbw out and passivate with acid. Obviously it's helping clean up after the caustic.

 

[Adr_0]

Fair enough on all that, but we're not talking strong NaOH or peroxide - PBW is fairly mild. It's fairly expensive too so I totally see your point.

I have seen at my own hands and with my own eyes grime that hasn't come off with acid, but that has with some effort. I guess it makes me wonder if I see that on the outside, what is on the inside as it's hard to scrub the inside of pipes.

I have a tub of Coles brand cleaner (35% percarbonate) that will probably work as well as the PBW in this application. I'm very tempted to use it and save the PBW for a rainy day...

 

[pk.sax]

Ah... Are you talking about copper pipe or steel pipe?

I find steel tubing a harder ****** to clean. Even polished stuff gets stuff sticking to it. Copper has always been a breeze to clean, literally cleans itself in the mash and boil besides the sugars so I give them a hot water rinse and soak in some starsan, bright everytime.

Must say I tend to use the brush before the chemicals. Probably helps the chemical get a good soak on the surface.

 

[technobabble66]

Fwiw, from the grainandgrape website:

"Sodium Percarbonate.
Oxyper is great for cleaning many surfaces. It is good for stainless, brass, plastic, glass and even oak barrels. We use it for our plate chillers and counter flow chillers. It can be left to soak for longer periods for a better cleaning, overnight or longer. ..."

Also, I came across a brewery cleaner manufacturers website that said the addition of sodium metasilicate to the sod perc means it can be used safely on copper & aluminium).

 

[technobabble66]

@PF & Adr,
Yeah I've come across a few mentions of never using caustic on brass but struggled to clarify if they meant Caustic Soda or any caustic/alkaline substance. The more I've read, the more I think they meant the former, namely because (as Adr stated) sod perc is not actually that caustic/reactive.

Just to further confuse things, I came across a BYO article by John Palmer that seemed to say brass (& the "insignificant" amount of lead therein) is protected by the dull oxidated layer across its surface, and that using acid to clean it removed this protective layer.

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1144-metallurgy-for-homebrewers

 

[pk.sax]

Gah... We're all gonna die!

At least the mind would be numb when it comes.

Wait... What did I say?

 

[GalBrew]

Soak your brass fittings in PBW for too long and there won't be anything left. I would be careful cleaning them.

 

[lael]

Aren't the mounting points of most immersion heating elements brass? Does that mean we should be trying to buy stainless ended ones ( for want of a better explanation) instead? Do they exist?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think you will be safe if you soak your brass & copper in PBW/Nappi-san etc. But not for overly extended times.

 

[GalBrew]

I think you will be safe if you soak your brass & copper in PBW/Nappi-san etc. But not for overly extended times.

Yes, quite right Stu. An hour or two will be ok. But overnight or extended and it will pitt brass and I have seen it eat away cheap chrome plating too.