Botulism

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

pk.sax

RIP bum
Joined
19/8/10
Messages
4,362
Reaction score
415
Now, reading up on botulism has piqued my interest in figuring some things out.

Question for someone in the know, is it possible to have a very mild case of botulism? Like something that would just make you lethargic and tired but not kill you?
I ask because I never suffered these things in Melbourne and I no-chilled. Up here, I've had had this and I've always attributed it to the humidity. Hence why I questioned earlier if the bacteria's ability to survive outside is boosted by particular environmental conditions? It might not even be the damn beer - drinking and not drinking makes sod all difference to me, but the general food and water up here! Perhaps different people have different resistance to it. I haven't seen any of the local brewers, chillers or no-chill complain of it.

If there is no such thing as a mild case of botulism then I'm obviously unnecessarily worried. I've been trying to nail this effect of the tropics on me since I got here! Last prognosis was hypothyroidism that corrected itself over a couple of months.

I bring it up since the botulism toxin, like any other would play with the immune system and could be an undiagnosed cause?! (I'm no doctor, this is all speculation).
See, Growing up in India, a HOT country, it was common wisdom to eat hot cooked food and to avoid cold/uncooked food, also to avoid leftover food from the day before or older. This, the tropics are somewhat similar I'm afraid but the food habits don't tend to differ that much from the rest of oz... Especially the need to eat cold stuff in the heat.

Anyway, interested in opinions from people that might have lived in the tropics ro live here still. Haven't been able to shake off the lethargic, tiredness thing properly for a while now.

PS: If I were concerned enough I'd just go to the doc, I've been to the doc and no suggestion was made of Botulism. Furthermore, I hate eating unnecessary medicines.
 
I got interested as well and I found this report that says
Under stress, C. botulinum forms a spore that survives standard cooking and food-processing measures. However, the confluence of conditions permitting spore germinationanaerobic milieu, nonacidic pH, and low salt and sugar contentis rarely achieved in food, which explains the small number of foodborne botulism cases. The technique of modern industrial canning (i.e., retort canning) was developed expressly for killing C. botulinum spores [16, 17]. In contrast with the spore, botulinum toxins are temperature sensitive, and all toxins are inactivated by heating to 85C for 5 min [17].

You can read the whole report here

So it seems to me that the conditions for botulism to form are.
  • no air
  • non acid ph
  • low salt
  • low sugar
So maybe the high sugar contents of wort stops the bacteria from growing.
 
Self diagnosing botulism because you're feeling run down in a tropical climate?

Are we really supposed to take this seriously?
 
Hey Brad, that was very informative. Basically, my worry about botulism toxins existing without causing full blown botulism seems to be quite needless.
Further, great information in there.

PS: bugger off bum, I recognised symptoms of gout and corrected the situation early on when I started homebrewing. Nothing wrong with knowing more about what our habits/hobbies do to us. Botulism seems so rare that it's hard to find first hand accounts.
 
Have you been making crab salad using tins of imported home brand meat that were 'on special'?
Just thought I'd ask.
On the plus side, if it is a case of botulism, you'll be looking years younger once it starts paralyzing and relaxing your facial muscles.
I say go along for the ride!
 
Question for someone in the know, is it possible to have a very mild case of botulism? Like something that would just make you lethargic and tired but not kill you?
I ask because I never suffered these things in Melbourne and I no-chilled. Up here, I've had had this and I've always attributed it to the humidity.

[/quote]

Nahh... not botulism. You're just turning into a Queenslander :ph34r:
 
Actually, lots of mozzies up there aren't there?
Ross River virus perhaps?
 
I had botulism yesterday morning.

Big breakky of eggs, bacon and fried tomatoes fixed that right up, and I ended up going back for another session of botulism infected no-chill beer last night.
 
My doctor says I've got the flu but I looked up the symptoms on Google.

Fever
Muscle soreness
Headache
Sore throat
Joint pain
Night sweats
Diarrhea

The Mayo Clinic is pretty sure I have AIDS. Is it because I put in my hop additions without a hopsock?
 
could be ross river or something like it. years ago I came back from a camping trip (still in victoria) and had similar symptoms. went to the doc and they thought i might have ross river even though i was no where near the usual infection locations (ie too far south). tests came back showing something like ross river but not ross river. they had nfi what it was and after 1 or 2 years it went away.
 
You should be going to see a doctor so you can tell him exactly what you've got....
 
Are you suffering from cankles?
Could be dropsy.
 
You get ross river in the north and you won't get out of bed for a month.
 
You get botulism and leave it untreated, you won't get out of bed forever.
 
Mate first thing I thought of when reading your post was Ross river. I'd be off for a blood test. I am no doctor but it could be a 2ma.

Cheers
 
Barney next door`s getting circumcised next week.
Only a local anesthetic so I`ll get him to take some pics and put them on here, seeing we`ve gone into medical mode.
 
I'd love to take a squizz at your mate's freshly cut cock.

Can you post a pick of the fourskin too? I want to see what I'm missing.
 
I'd love to take a squizz at your mate's freshly cut cock.

Can you post a pick of the fourskin too? I want to see what I'm missing.

Wonder if it looks like a frizzled calamari ring once chopped off?
 
Back
Top