Bottle Conditioning Flavour Effects

[neonmeate]

something i've noticed: things that may taste like crap at bottling taste totally different as soon as they're carbonated. like, three, four days later.

i'm assuming that this is because the extra little bit of yeast activity in carbonation cleans up off flavours and produces a few more flavours of its own. of course it could be that my palate is fooled by the carbonation?

question i have is: do those of you who force carbonate in kegs, or filter as well, (which i don't) notice any difference in flavour, and maturation to bottle conditioned stuff? anyone compared the same beer bottled and kegged? (or force carbed vs primed in keg?)

 

[lou]

I am very familiar with this phenomenon

it was the 'bottling effect' that made me switch to kegging - IMHO the flavour of kegged beer and bottled coditioned beer is totally different and i prefer kegged beer
-
for a start consider the difference between commercial beer on tap and in the bottle -very different - also most yeasts are not designed for bottle conditioning

when you add the sugar to the bottle you are restarting fermentation - this has 2 possible negative effects on the beer

you are rousing old and tired yeast which is likely to produce off flavours
also rather than be able to expel various chemicals from the brew as happens in a fermenter either via air lock or otherwise - all the volatile substances produced by the yeast get trapped in the beer in the bottle

kegged beer tastes fresher and takes no time to mature - in effect when you bottle beer you ruin it and then wait for it to clear up - that is for the yeast to reabsorb and convert all the crap it farts into the beer while in the bottle and carbinating your brew

keg on
lou

 

[Brad_G]

Very interesting post lou.

I have bottle conditioned 1 bottle from my arthanum ale. I wish it was in the fridge now as I would taste one from the keg and the one from the bottle and note any differences.

I have 2 questions that arises from your post:-
Beer wasnt always force carbonated since it was founded many many centuries ago, so what happened then? Im sure they had great beers by cask fermenting them
Keg priming is still used to carbonate beers these days, why would it not be faded out?

Hey neon, I will keep you posted on the tasting of my ale.

Brad

 

[Malnourished]

for a start consider the difference between commercial beer on tap and in the bottle -very different - also most yeasts are not designed for bottle conditioning

This is an interesting topic. I'm not sure I'd say that most yeasts aren't suited to bottle-conditioning, but some are certainly better than others.

I've definitely noticed the same thing as neonmeate - some beers taste brilliant at bottling and never reach the same heights from that point on (I still think about that Klsch from a few years ago... sigh ), others the complete opposite.

For ages I thought that all this talk of "second fermentation" that the Belgians go on about was mostly a marketing exercise, but now I see what they're on about. For instance, La Chouffe on tap is an entirely different beer - way fresher, thicker, maltier and more brash but a lot less refined. Of course most (all?) commercial breweries repitch fresh (ie. healthy) yeast at bottling, so they have an edge over many homebrews, as lou suggests. At Hanssens I was served "lambik" which is the exact same (blended) liquid as the gueuze only served just before it goes into the bottle. I know lambics are a bit of an extreme case, but it's interesting that merely bottling (and the subsequent refermentation of course) makes it a different beer in their eyes. Of course lambic and gueuze taste quite different too.

But anyway, I usually keg a batch and fill half a dozen bottles or so with whatever's left. My experience leads me to the following vast generalisations:
- British ale yeasts: Not very well-suited to bottle-conditioning at all. Especially in low gravity beers, the difference between kegged and bottled stuff is marked. The yeast just doesn't help at all. My experience with bottle-conditioned British beers is much the same, with a few notable exceptions of course.
- American ale yeast: Negligible flavour change with bottle-conditioning, which I like. Often I can barely tell the difference between bottle and keg.
- Belgian ale yeasts: Almost always better for bottle-conditioning in my experience. It seems to give another dimension of yeast character, a drier, leaner mouthfeel and enables a bit of good old smaakevolutie as time passes.
- Lager yeasts: I don't have too much experience with bottling lagers, but it definitely seems to bring a different, yeastier character to the beer. I figure most people would dislike this character in their beer but I seem to like it, particularly in a pils. Christoffel Blond is a good example of what I'm talking about.