Bore Water contains Iron & Copper

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That's odd, i give them samples to analyse, many of which are water based.

What number did you call? I'll send you a PM with the number i use.

I suspect there is a breakdown in communication in what you are asking for and what they think you want. The minute you ask for 'water analysis' they will think you want bacteria levels, dissolved organics, total dissolved solids etc in addition to the things I have suggested you ask for. A carbon filter will remove all these things so analysing for them is a moot point. What you want is for only the following elements/ions to be analysed for - iron, copper, calcium, sodium, chloride, and sulfate. I suspect the carbonate may be the one they can't analyse for easily and is not something i analyse for either. I know they analyse for all of these in water samples because they do so for me. The pH of your water is also largely irrelevant, particularly for someone who is not (yet) brewing with grain. Remove these from your request and you should be ok. You only need the iron and copper analysed if you are using bore water, there won't be enough in mains water or rainwater for there to be a problem assuming you aren't using a rusty galv tank to store the water?
 
The number I called at CSIRO is +61 8 8303 8800

I told CSIRO that I was looking for a water testing from my tanks that covered the minerals and metals. I was told they no longer do that type of testing and referred me to the Waite Uni who referred me to awqc.com.au who referred on - one BIG CIRCLE.

I've tried to copy the Analysis Drinking water costing PDF and paste it here unsuccessfully. Here is a transcribed version:
[SIZE=15.008px]Colour, electrical conductance, hardness, pH, TDS, turbidity, chloride, sulphate, fluoride, sillca - reactive, calcium, magnesium, potasssium, sodium, filtration, aluminum, iron, manganese, copper, arsenic, cadmium, lead, digestion, E coli.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=15.008px]All this costs $339.00[/SIZE]

[SIZE=15.008px]I just returned from the pool company who ran a test for me of my bore water sample taken directly from the tap by the bore pump. Line was flushed for a considerable amount of time. Here are the results:[/SIZE]

Total Alkalinity = 38
pH = 6.4
Calcium Hardness = 7
Phosphate = 0.1
Iron = 0.2
Copper = 0

Salts = 100

Here are the results from the water sample taken from the tanks which is predominantly holding rain water right now.

Total Alkalinity = 96
pH = 6.5
Calcium Hardness = 185
Phosphate = 0.1
Iron = 0.3
Copper = 0.1
Salts = 80
 
DrSmurto had asked for results that the pool test did not supply.
Previously I had done a test using a kit that offered results that you are looking for.

Here are the results:
Chloride = 500
Iron = 0
Copper = 0.1
Sulfate = 250
Alkalinity = 80
pH between = 4.0 to 5.0
Total Chlorine = 0 (as expected)
Total Hardness = 0
Nitrate = ?
Nitrite = ?
Bacteria = Positive (from tank)
Free Chlorine = 0
H2S = 0

I have a second test without the pH that I am willing to do a second test ... it it will help in making a decision if I need to purchase a under sink filtration system.
 
RichardLavender said:
The number I called at CSIRO is +61 8 8303 8800

I told CSIRO that I was looking for a water testing from my tanks that covered the minerals and metals. I was told they no longer do that type of testing and referred me to the Waite Uni who referred me to awqc.com.au who referred on - one BIG CIRCLE.

I've tried to copy the Analysis Drinking water costing PDF and paste it here unsuccessfully. Here is a transcribed version:
[SIZE=15.008px]Colour, electrical conductance, hardness, pH, TDS, turbidity, chloride, sulphate, fluoride, sillca - reactive, calcium, magnesium, potasssium, sodium, filtration, aluminum, iron, manganese, copper, arsenic, cadmium, lead, digestion, E coli.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=15.008px]All this costs $339.00[/SIZE]

[SIZE=15.008px]I just returned from the pool company who ran a test for me of my bore water sample taken directly from the tap by the bore pump. Line was flushed for a considerable amount of time. Here are the results:[/SIZE]

Total Alkalinity = 38
pH = 6.4
Calcium Hardness = 7
Phosphate = 0.1
Iron = 0.2
Copper = 0

Salts = 100

Here are the results from the water sample taken from the tanks which is predominantly holding rain water right now.

Total Alkalinity = 96
pH = 6.5
Calcium Hardness = 185
Phosphate = 0.1
Iron = 0.3
Copper = 0.1
Salts = 80
Therein lies the issue - [SIZE=15.008px]Colour, electrical conductance, hardness, pH, TDS, turbidity, chloride, sulphate, fluoride, sillca - reactive, calcium, magnesium, potasssium, sodium, filtration, aluminum, iron, manganese, copper, arsenic, cadmium, lead, digestion, E coli. To get all these results require several different instruments which is why I was suggesting a smaller number that are directly useful in brewing. The rest are not and most can be removed with a simple carbon filtration unit anyway. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=15.008px]The ones i suggested ([/SIZE]iron, copper, calcium, sodium, chloride, and sulfate) [SIZE=15.008px]can be done with 2 instruments. Even if you added zince and magnesium to this you will still be charged the same.[/SIZE]
 
Richard,

I think you can forget the results from your strip test kit all together. You can definately throw out the kit too. I think its safe to say that it has been fairly well proven to be completely unreliable. The alkalinity, hardness and pH were way off. I think you can say that all the other results from that initial kit test you did can be forgotten. Now that's not to say the pool guys results are 100%, but I think its safe to rely on them as a good enough guide.

So, that being said, I completely change my tune about your bore water (to a certain extent). Whilst Dr Smurto is advising to have certain things tested, he is really coming from an all grain brewing perspective I think. There's nothing wrong with that, but you have stated you are only interested in kit&kilo or extract brewing at this stage. My main concern for your water was the initial results of your kit test. I think you can now ignore those concerns (my specific concern was the low pH and the high chance that such low pH ground water could leach heavy metals and other nasties into it, as well as the effect it would have on your metal piping). This concern is alleviated a great deal by the pool guys readings of your bore water pH that are HOPEFULLY reliable enough. I think this reliability is born out in the Iron level of 0.2 mg/L. A really low pH would generally have a higher Iron content so I'd be happy that the pool guys pH result is roughly right (or at least not in the 4-5 range).

IF the metal content for copper (0mg/L) and iron (0.2 mg/L) are accurate you SHOULD be ok. The reason I highlight should is that the iron is close to the maximum for the NHMRC aesthetic value (0.3 mg/L), which means it might be visible (discolouration left on clothing washed with the water) or have an iron taste beyond this level. This is easy to test. Taste the water, if you have an iron taste or that blood nose odour in your nose then it may affect the flavour of your beers. If you can't detect this, then it's unlikely you will taste it in your beer.

Now as I and others have said the pH won't affect your brewing to any great extent (for those that groan at this remember he is extract brewing and only adding the water to his kit) so given that both your bore water and rain water are 6.4 and 6.5 respectively I suggest you can rest easy about your copper pipes. The range between 6.5 & 8.5 is the recommended pH for municipal water. If you really wanted to push the pH up to 7 or higher in order to absolutely over-the-top ensure nil copper was leached from your pipes, you could add some calcium carbonate or even cheaper, bicarbonate of soda. Bicarbonate of soda does add sodium to your water (given you live close to the sea I'd keep this down) and calcium carbonate does increase the hardness levels in your already "up-there" rain water. The amounts we are talking about are tiny. For Calcium carbonate it would be something close to 0.02 gm/L to bring it from 6.5 up to 7.5 or similar, that is 300 gm per 15,000L tank. In regards to the condition of your copper pipes, I honestly think the pH at 6.4 is not worth worrying about though (especially considering the buffering effect of the hardness in your rain water). I'm not advocating adding anything to your water at this stage, only giving you the info incase you are keen or the tanks empty of rain water and you want to harden up the softer bore water (to prevent pipe corosion).

The way I read it, after 17 years of drinking the stuff, you aren't worried about high levels of nasty bacteria in your water right? And given many things can kill bacteria (boiling, alcohol, etc) they can easily be overcome. I am pretty sure the reason the water testing facilities want your sample within 24 hours is because of the E Coli and other bacteria testing they do. I think after 24 hours the results can't be considered reliable, because of natural die off or breeding of the bacteria, which can effect the levels giving false results. So, if you aren't worried about the bacteria in the water then you can ignore that 24 hour requirement.

So in saying all of that, would I still get the bore water tested. Yes I would and despite the cost (although keep shopping around for a better price).
Maybe it's because I'm paranoid about water that has been sitting in the ground and the lack of knowledge about the make up of that ground. If I had the choice I would get it tested for hardness, pH, chloride, sulphate, calcium, magnesium, potasssium, sodium, iron, manganese, copper, arsenic, cadmium, lead and see if they could test for chromium. My thinking behind having so many tested is less for the brewing or corroding pipe side of things, but for the health implications of any of the heavy metals or sulphate being above maximum levels recommended for health safety. See NHMRC guidelines for maximums https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/guidelines-publications/eh33
 
First - A HUGE THANK YOU TO Jack for his response. Mate that must have taken some time to compose - thank you.

I contacted the Cairns Lab and asked for them to cost a specific test - they responded with

The ICPMS is for the testing of Copper, Iron and Zinc ; the ICPOES is for the testing of Calcium, Sodium and Magnesium. $149.00
 
I would just spend the $$ and get it tested for everything in a proper lab (except bacteria as you know that that is not really an issue)

Bores dont generally change much over time if drawing from the same level in an aquifer. So unless something drastic happens the proper test result readings should last for quite a few years

If you find that the water table drops you might see a change in the water quality.
 
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