Bohemian Pilsner In Secondary

[LesSin]

Hi All

I have done my 1st all grain Bohemian Pilsner. It fermented for 9 days at 12c, at this time it was down to 1 bubble every ten minutes through the airlock. I have racked it down to the secondary and dropped the temp progressively to 10.5 degrees over 5 days. My question is

How long should it stay in the secondary before bottling?
How low should I drop the temperature?

I have seen varying and conflicting times and temps ranging from 7c to 2c and 2 weeks to a couple of months. I used Irish Moss in the boil and it came out pretty clear into the secondary.

Thanks
Les

 

[mxd]

has it finished fermenting ?

 

[Hogan]

Hi All

I have done my 1st all grain Bohemian Pilsner. It fermented for 9 days at 12c, at this time it was down to 1 bubble every ten minutes through the airlock. I have racked it down to the secondary and dropped the temp progressively to 10.5 degrees over 5 days. My question is

How long should it stay in the secondary before bottling?
How low should I drop the temperature?

I have seen varying and conflicting times and temps ranging from 7c to 2c and 2 weeks to a couple of months. I used Irish Moss in the boil and it came out pretty clear into the secondary.

Thanks
Les

You can't rely on the bubble as indication for completion Les. That may only be Co2 coming out of solution. Have you done a hydrometer test? This will determine if your FG is close enough to take it off the yeast into secondary. My total time for a pils is usually two weeks. I keg but it is no different in bottling. You should not bottle until the yeast has completely finished its job.

For your info my temperature regime is as follows: pitch yeast @ 7.5c, let rise over twenty four hours to 10c. leave for nine days and rise to 12c. until yeast is finished. Drop down to 4c for 2 days and let any remaining yeast clean up. Cold condition at 0c for two days.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[Bribie G]

Cold condition 2 days? I'd make that 2 months.

Even VB gets 10 days

 

[fcmcg]

You can't rely on the bubble as indication for completion Les. That may only be Co2 coming out of solution. Have you done a hydrometer test? This will determine if your FG is close enough to take it off the yeast into secondary. My total time for a pils is usually two weeks. I keg but it is no different in bottling. You should not bottle until the yeast has completely finished its job.

For your info my temperature regime is as follows: pitch yeast @ 7.5c, let rise over twenty four hours to 10c. leave for nine days and rise to 12c. until yeast is finished. Drop down to 4c for 2 days and let any remaining yeast clean up. Cold condition at 0c for two days.

Cheers, Hoges.

I agree with your first bit Hogan but i also include a diacetyl rest in the fermentation process .When fermentation is almost complete , bring it up to about 20 degrees..for 2 days and then cold condition . All your flavor profiles are created in the first 72 hours , so it won't add fruitiness to your beer and you will get rid of any buttery taste or aroma..
To the op , I would have also done a 90 min boil to , to get rid of the pre-cursors of dms...
Next time...
And as stated , use a hydrometer if you haven't already..the air lock means nothing..ask the glad wrap boys !!
Cheers
Ferg

 

[Hogan]

Cold condition 2 days? I'd make that 2 months.

Even VB gets 10 days

Two days at 0c with the gelatine drops any suspended matter to the bottom and the beers gets racked off that. Additional conditioning is done in the keg.

I agree with your first bit Hogan but i also include a diacetyl rest in the fermentation process .When fermentation is almost complete , bring it up to about 20 degrees..for 2 days and then cold condition . All your flavor profiles are created in the first 72 hours , so it won't add fruitiness to your beer and you will get rid of any buttery taste or aroma..

Cold pitching removes the requirement for a diacetyl rest, in my opinion. I never done one since I commenced pitching at 7.5c and have never found it in my beer.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[Bribie G]

Yes I lager in the keg, have a couple that I brewed in February and I'll be tapping bottles off for the State and (hopefully) National comps this year. I just don't feel happy about CCing in plastic for more than a few weeks.

 

[therook]

Yes I lager in the keg, have a couple that I brewed in February and I'll be tapping bottles off for the State and (hopefully) National comps this year. I just don't feel happy about CCing in plastic for more than a few weeks.

Do them voices start talking to you Bribie :icon_cheers:

I generally leave them in plastic for 4 weeks ( Can't wait any longer 0

Rook

 

[Wolfy]

How long should it stay in the secondary before bottling?
How low should I drop the temperature?

I have seen varying and conflicting times and temps ranging from 7c to 2c and 2 weeks to a couple of months. I used Irish Moss in the boil and it came out pretty clear into the secondary.

You're making a lager, so the best answers are:
As long as possible.
As low as possible (assuming you don't freeze it).

The reason you see conflicting information is that some people do not have the time/patience or equipment to keep the beer at a low temp for a long period.
However if you wish to actually lager your beer, keep it close to 0 for at least a few weeks.

 

[Bribie G]

As Wolfy says. The only reason I went into "traditional" lagering times was because I bought a new very accurate fridge (actually a kegmate fridge with a digital display -1 to 8 ) specifically for cold conditioning and lagering and it will hold the beer at -1 (won't freeze as the alcohol is an antifreeze but that's right on the borderline). Until I got the new equipment the best I could do was a month in a cube, as per Rook's post above.

For a light coloured refreshing aromatic beer, there's heaps you can do in the Summer Ales and Blonde Ales that hit that lager spot on a hot day, in a quarter of the time. :icon_cheers:

 

[donburke]

something that works for me is;

make a big starter and ferment it out at room temperature

place starter and cubed wort in fridge for 24 hours at 10 degrees

pour 10 degree wort into fermenter, splashing as you go

decant top of 10 degree starter and disgard, rouse slurry, pitch slurry into fermenter

back into fridge for 2 weeks at 10 degrees

leave in primary and drop temp to 1 or 2 degrees for another 2 weeks

keg and put into kegerator at pouring pressure

drink beer after one week

whole process takes 5 to 6 weeks to produce a drinkable lager that will also improve over the next couple of weeks

 

[Thefatdoghead]

You're making a lager, so the best answers are:
As long as possible.
As low as possible (assuming you don't freeze it).

The reason you see conflicting information is that some people do not have the time/patience or equipment to keep the beer at a low temp for a long period.
However if you wish to actually lager your beer, keep it close to 0 for at least a few weeks.

So even if the yeast says to ferment @ 10 degrees you would still have it as low as possible as long as possible? Also should the lager be racked to secondary when 75% fermented or fully fermented? Did I read correct that you don't need a Diacetyl rest if you pitch at fermentation temps or just above?

 

[Wolfy]

So even if the yeast says to ferment @ 10 degrees you would still have it as low as possible as long as possible? Also should the lager be racked to secondary when 75% fermented or fully fermented? Did I read correct that you don't need a Diacetyl rest if you pitch at fermentation temps or just above?

My reply was based on the fact that the OP has transferred to secondary, presumably because fermentation has finished, and is now ready to lager and condition the beer.
Obviously if you are asking about fermentation temps, then yes, you'd need to ferment the beer at about 10C.

I'd not use a secondary if there was no specific reason for it such as yeast harvesting or conditioning the beer for months.

Most of the yeast flavours, esters and other byproducts are produced at the start of the fermentation process as the yeast is reproducing, if you pitch cold (below the expected fermentation temp not above) the theory is that those off-flavours (such as Diacetyl) are minimized because the yeast's metabolism is slower and as such a D-rest may not be needed.

 

[Nick JD]

A little bit of diacetyl in a Boh Pils is par for the course. IMO it's a nice edge to the bready, crisp bohemian malt.

 

[pbrosnan]

Hi All

I have done my 1st all grain Bohemian Pilsner. It fermented for 9 days at 12c, at this time it was down to 1 bubble every ten minutes through the airlock. I have racked it down to the secondary and dropped the temp progressively to 10.5 degrees over 5 days. My question is

How long should it stay in the secondary before bottling?
How low should I drop the temperature?

I have seen varying and conflicting times and temps ranging from 7c to 2c and 2 weeks to a couple of months. I used Irish Moss in the boil and it came out pretty clear into the secondary.

Thanks
Les

The only way to tell if you're ready to rack is by looking at the final gravity. If it's stabilised then go ahead. You don't want fermentation to have completely stopped as you want some carbonation to happen when you put it into a sealed container, that's your secondary fermentation. With a lager I reckon you leave for a bit at the ferment temp in the sealed vessel to get some CO2 going back into solution and then drop it to lager temps for a couple of months. Oh and don't worry to much about diacetyl etc, this is really getting a bit esoteric. Generally if you've fermented at the correct temps for the yeast you'll have bugger all to worry about in that regard.

 

[LesSin]

Thanks all for the replies

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022, seems a little high? so I'll take another reading when I get home in the morning. If it shows its finished fermenting, I'll drop the temp gradually to 2c and leave it in secondary another 2 months. Then I'll bottle and leave another month, should be great by summer. I have a large fridge on a stc-1000 so holding the temp is no issue.

Les

 

[fcmcg]

Thanks all for the replies

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022, seems a little high? so I'll take another reading when I get home in the morning. If it shows its finished fermenting, I'll drop the temp gradually to 2c and leave it in secondary another 2 months. Then I'll bottle and leave another month, should be great by summer. I have a large fridge on a stc-1000 so holding the temp is no issue.

Les

Mate , no offense but if it's at 1.022 now , it isn't gonna be ready tomorrow morning . You racked after 9 days...you probably left a heap of yeast behind and your just gonna have to be patient. Maybe even raise the temp to finish it off ?Is it possible for you to leave it for another week ? I'd try another hydro test then...And because your pitch temp was higher than Wolfy or Hogan suggested , when fermentation is nearly complete I'd do a diacytl rest..then cold condition ..as I suggested earlier
Cheers
Ferg

 

[mxd]

Thanks all for the replies

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022, seems a little high? so I'll take another reading when I get home in the morning. If it shows its finished fermenting, I'll drop the temp gradually to 2c and leave it in secondary another 2 months. Then I'll bottle and leave another month, should be great by summer. I have a large fridge on a stc-1000 so holding the temp is no issue.

Les

1.022 should still be sitting on the yeast cake and probably start raising the temp to do a D-Rest to let it finish off, I would assume it would finish around the 1.012.

 

[gap]

Thanks all for the replies

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022, seems a little high? so I'll take another reading when I get home in the morning. If it shows its finished fermenting, I'll drop the temp gradually to 2c and leave it in secondary another 2 months. Then I'll bottle and leave another month, should be great by summer. I have a large fridge on a stc-1000 so holding the temp is no issue.

Les

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022,

Have you done the necessary corrections to your refractometer reading because you are
using fermenting wort? Have you done an hydrometer reading to check against the refractometer reading.
If you have not done the correction your gravity is not 1.022 but something less.

Regards

Graeme

 

[Hogan]

I did a refractometer reading and its reading 1.022, seems a little high?

Les

Just to be on the safe side - you are aware that a refrac reading on fermenting beer has to be read in conjunction with a calculation - not just the brix reading.


Cheers, Hoges.


Too quick Gap.