Biab Partial - Is 8l Pan Enough?

[pixelboy]

Hi Folks,

Im an extract brewer, 600gms of LDME in a 8l 60min Boil with hop additions at 60min, 20min and flameout with 400gms of LDME. Then add a can of Coopers Liquid Malt extract into the fermenter with the cooled wort, top up to 21l and in goes the re-hydrated yeast.

I want to explore replacing the 1kg of LDME with 2.5kg of grains (base + some specialty) done BIAB style.

My question is: Is 8l of water enough to mash 2 - 3kg of grain and how much liquid would you estimate i'd end up with?

Should I then top up with water to 8l before boiling?

I'm guessing the hops utilisation will drop due to the higher gravity boil but I think beer smith takes that into account.

Here's the recipe ive come up for the first one..


Partial Passionfruit Ale

Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 21.00 L
Brewer: Todd Baker
Boil Size: 8.00 L
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 34.88 %
2.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 58.14 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.98 %
15.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.2 IBU
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] (20 min) Hops 18.4 IBU
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs US-05 (SafAle) Yeast-Ale


Thanks in advance :icon_cheers:

 

[cozmocracker]

this is what i would do, but im prepared to be shot down so im ready to duck.

ratio of water to grain 3 to 1, so 2.5 kg of grain would be 7.5 litres to mash with. while its mashing heat another 5 litres up to say 78 degrees which you can use to sparge with, to do this i would lift bag out of mash pot, sqeeze then dunk into 2nd pot of hot water to sparge with, combine two lots of wort and bring to boil, you should end up with 11 or 12 litres of wort to boil depending on how well you squeeze the bag.

this all depends on whether you have two pots large enough.

how big is your pot?

 

[Sammus]

What he said ^ except adjust the 'sparge' water volume to the size of your pan.

When doing calcs, you can pretty safely assume that the grain will soak up 1L of water per kg of grain. And if you worried about having enough room to fit the grain, 652g of grain takes up about the same space as 1L of water.

 

[pixelboy]

I have two pots, both can fit about 8L, with enough space to allow a boil (they fit approx 10l to the brim)

 

[MarkBastard]

It's easy enough to just use the kettle to sparge with. Fill up the kettle, bring to the boil, then add cold water to get to the desired temperature and use it to wash the grain

 

[pixelboy]

Thank you all..

Whilst searching for something else I found a good post on this..

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=441685

Apologies for re-posting, sometimes its hard to get the keywords right (I found the link one above searching "sew bag nylon" :huh: )



Anyway, I will follow the good suggestions above..

Mash 2.5kg's of grain with approx 7lL of water and sparge with approx 3L to bring it back up to about 8L then boil as usual. Im sure the first one will be a bit of a mess but experience is the best way to learn right

Now, how to sew the bag... /me searches


Thanks again. :icon_cheers:

 

[Pollux]

What he said ^ except adjust the 'sparge' water volume to the size of your pan.

When doing calcs, you can pretty safely assume that the grain will soak up 1L of water per kg of grain. And if you worried about having enough room to fit the grain, 652g of grain takes up about the same space as 1L of water.

Where did you get that number from?? Because that would mean I wouldn't be able to fit 33L of water + 5.5kg of grain (8.8L based on your numbers) in my 40L and still stir it......

I am now very confused, I know my scales are good, I just got new ones too, the urn I marked myself........ :huh:

 

[Brewtus]

I just bought a 16lt ss pot from Big W in Woden, Canberra for $50. This is because I was struggling with a 9l and a 6l pot combination of pots, doing what Troy Dack was suggesting (did this last year) but it was such a pain. I could not get more than 2.5kg of grain in and it was not enough for some recipes or a true half batch of 3kg. I am yet to christen the 16l pot but I should be able to do a half batch boil in it with enough head room. I have also made a chiller to go with it but the detail will be in a different post. I should still be able to sparge in the larger of my old pots. I am still going to keep using the bag but I have an esky to convert to a mash tun if I don't get the results I want.

Good luck but I bet you soon get sick of juggling a full bag in a pot that's just to small.

 

[Bribie G]

Currently supping a UK all grain tribute to Cameron's Strongarm. The grain bill was 3 kg of base malt plus 500g maize and 300g dark malts, turned out beautiful but that's using a 40L urn BIAB. Handled it well. However the 3 kg of grain referred to by the OP is almost into the territory of my AG grain bill and the thought of doing it in an 8L pot......... whoah

In my partial days I could get up to 1.5 kg mash in a 9L plastic food container in a water bath in an esky then, after batch sparging, a boil in a 10L stockpot. And that was about its limit.

Best of luck.

However even a 1Kg minimash can improve a kit n dextrose brew enormously. If you are doing a style like Australian standard lager you can almost achieve commercial quality beer with good temp control, an appropriate kit like Morgans Queensland Bitter, a good yeast, and good hops like POR or Cluster.

 

[pdilley]

Stop shopping at the locals and save up your beer money. Its only $80 to get a 40L Aluminium Stock Pot, $92 for a 50L, $99 60L, where will it end? at allquip. I got the 36 Stainless Steel, but I'd consider that tight and bare minimum size.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pixelboy]

I hear you guys but a bigger pot means a bigger burner, then either a chiller or some no-chill action.

Thanks again, Ill give it a go with 2kg and see how it pans out.

:icon_cheers:

 

[drew9242]

IMHO after trying this i would not reccomend it. When i did partials i used me little esky which was a lot easier. There are some good instructions on how to do this on the OLiver and Geoff Home brew web site, worth a look. After reading that its dead easy. Just my thoughts after trying both methods.

Ohh i forgot you can buy a 15L pot from Kmart for less then 30buks which might suit what you are trying to achieve a bit better.

 

[pdilley]

I hear you guys but a bigger pot means a bigger burner, then either a chiller or some no-chill action.

Thanks again, Ill give it a go with 2kg and see how it pans out.

:icon_cheers:

Only if the pot is full are you talking bigger burner. The amount of kilojoules/BTU of energy you have to put into the pot is determined by how much liquid is in it that needs to be brought up to a specified temperature. What it gives you is not having to buy yet another pot if you move up. If you do not plan to move up but stay at K&K/bits then stay smaller with your pot unless SWMBO wants to make a big seafood dish or soup for winter. Going AG/BIAB does mean a bigger pot so you need a place to store it, and for optimising space store all your other gear inside the pot when not in use.

I always recommend a restaurant designed pot over what you buy in consumer shops as they are designed to make the most efficient use of the heat and bring the contents up to temperature using the least amount of fuel. If you have seen a restaurant's gas bill you'll know how focused they are on good pots and pans. Any cheap pot will bring water to the boil but as we don't run our gas all day we don't see the inefficiencies reflected in our bills as would a restaurant. We are use to our bills and they seem normal to us.

If you start with the AG/BIAB you'll more than likely find yourself with wish-I-got-a-bigger-pot-itis, so careful, its a slippery slope

Moving up also makes it impossible to go out normally to stores without looking at items on the shelf in new and strange ways and figuring out how to adapt them to your brewing.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[pixelboy]

Pete, Im at the top of that slippery slope and I know ill fall down it at some time..

I already do spot things in shops and wonder if that would make the brew process better / more efficient.

At the moment we have a small child and finding the time to brew is hard. Unhopped Extract + 60min boil makes nice beer and I just wanna dip my toes in without opening the wallet too much. I can get a bag from Ross for $7.00 and try a couple of partials.. see how they go. Ill do one with the pots i've got, then see from there, maybe get a 15l one as Drew suggests.

I know ill be doing AG's in a few years when the lads grown up but for now i'll just paddle on the edge.

Thanks again all.

 

[Gavo]

Todd before moving to AG and bigger gear (not that long ago) I was doing partials in a 12lt pot I bought for $12 at one of the cheapie shops, and doing a pre-boil volume of 9lt. I did this with a grain bill of around 2 - 2.5 Kg. 9lt is easy enough to do on the stove-top with no extra gear required, particularly if you BIAB. I did a method similar to BribieG. Yes top up to 8lt pre-boil, you will get better hop extraction than if you used less and the boil is easier to manage.
To cool the wort post ferment I made an ice bath in the laundry tub and put the pot in there with the lid on. In 10 -20 the wort was at 40 degrees C and ready to add to the fermenter with some chilled top up water.
Get a method sorted and be prepared beforehand ond you will have no trouble.
Problem is after doing a few partials you will be hooked and want to go further. I have two youngins too I know what they can be like and am ready to lay odds that you don't last a few before moving on beyond partials. The two major differences between AG and Partials are time, AG is a bit longer again as it takes longer to get the larger volumes up to temp, and outlay for gear, you need bigger gear, and taste, AG is better again. Oh thats three.

Good luck withthe brew don't worry too much and just concentrate on the processes. Keep it a secret but it's pretty easy really. h34r:

Cheers
Gavo.