Biab Or Full Ag.. Cant Decide!

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jkirky

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Gday all...

I am tossing up HOW to make the move to AG...

I have an esky which has about 26 litre capacity and I have about 2 metres of 20 odd mm copper tube.

I was planning on making a manifold, but the problem is my esky doesnt have a tap insert.

I have a 19 litre pot and a large bbq burner which can boil large volumes with relative ease...

I am considering buying some voile and giving BIAB a try before investing in a bigger brew pot and an immersion chiller.

How much can a 30 litre pot be bought for? Should I give BIAB a try or just go straight to AG. I would prefer doing things as close to the right way or best way first, just with minimal cost.
 
not sure why you need a tap on the esky?? couldnt you drill a hole and insert a thread with rubber washers so it doesnt leak. I havnt constructed one but that was my thought on it. I have been convinced to skip BIAB and go straight to AG just waiting for a little money (hard to come by ATM). been told full AG can be accomplished for under $100 well I got a burner and may just need a medium regulator. guess a pot or 50lt keg would be the most.
 
Gday all...

I am tossing up HOW to make the move to AG...

I have an esky which has about 26 litre capacity and I have about 2 metres of 20 odd mm copper tube.

I was planning on making a manifold, but the problem is my esky doesnt have a tap insert.

I have a 19 litre pot and a large bbq burner which can boil large volumes with relative ease...

I am considering buying some voile and giving BIAB a try before investing in a bigger brew pot and an immersion chiller.

How much can a 30 litre pot be bought for? Should I give BIAB a try or just go straight to AG. I would prefer doing things as close to the right way or best way first, just with minimal cost.

Both are AG, just depends on what method you want to employ.
I took the road through BIAB then to a three vessel system and enjoyed every moment of it. For me it was far easier and cheaper at the time to go BIAB and bit by bit I have managed to acquire everything else needed to build up from there.

That's not to say you have to move to a three vessel system, plenty of BIABers are quite content as are the more "traditional" ones with their breweries.

My advice, if you want to get into AG as soon as possible and all you need is a bag then go and get it! If you move on later the bag can still be used for many things in the brewery such as hop socks / dry hop bags / filters etc, so you don't waste any money at all. Even though it's cheap anyway. :)

not sure why you need a tap on the esky?? couldnt you drill a hole and insert a thread with rubber washers so it doesnt leak.

He means the tap thread already there like on the bigger ones, simply take it out and fit in the bulkhead. But as you mentioned a hole drilled works a treat as well. Have both type of eskies in the gar..brewery as we speak.
 
If you have the 19L pot already, I'd stovetop BIAB. The sooner you go All- Grain*, the better while you can outfit a manifold to the esky at your leisure.

* I don't really want to nitpick, but BIAB is just another All- Grain method. You can make partials with it too, same as with an esky.

Ready, set... beaten.
 
I have BIAB'ed for a while and after my bag has given up on me (poor thing) I am seriously thinking about going to trad mashing.

No offense to the BIAB camp at all, because it is a great technique, if you are considering trad mashing, have the space, and you think you might end up there anyway, go for it. It is not to say you can't experiement with BIAB at a later date if you wanted to simplify a brewday for one reason or another.
 
I have BIAB'ed for a while and after my bag has given up on me (poor thing) I am seriously thinking about going to trad mashing.

No offense to the BIAB camp at all, because it is a great technique, if you are considering trad mashing, have the space, and you think you might end up there anyway, go for it. It is not to say you can't experiement with BIAB at a later date if you wanted to simplify a brewday for one reason or another.


I started out with the esky setup....
Since learning about biab and no chill in a cube, I have never looked back , nor have I ever brewed so many beers

a 19l pot and a bag plus a thermometer and you done

I love the simplicity, the speed and cleanup.

Horses for courses of course, but in my time poor world, biab just is just so simple
my esky has been on top of the beer fridge ever since !!
 
I think either path would be the same, but I just completed my first 2.5v AG brew (its a long story about the 2.5v bit) and the sense of achievement is massive. Having taken stock of the equipment costs involved in full 3v AG brewing, I'd say that the choice would be dictated by price for most, but if you can afford to make the leap, I can't recommend it enough.
 
+1 for BIAB for three reasons:

1. Cheap
2. Easy
3. Great... no, awesome AG beer!!

Try BIAB and then step up to esky set up later if and when necessary
 
Thanks for the replies fellas...

Wasnt all that keen on drilling a hole in a perfectly good esky, hence my current dilema... Wish the esky had the bung as I could just plumb in the manifold. I have access to a workshop at work so it wouldnt be any drama constructing the mash tun...

If I did decide to drill the esky, how would you guys propose to plumb the manifold and keep the unit from leaking? Would you just use food grade silicone with a gromet of sort?

I have a lintcraft close to me so I may just buy some voile and a cube and give the BIAG a shot before investing the time into the esky.

Whilst I am for saving money, I am not too worried about investing a little money in my brew set up as i already appreciate the savings made by NOT purchasing commercial beer, ie I know i am still saving money and producing great beer as a hobby...

PS Is the beer that much better from AG than extract brewing? I know the answer, but I need some encouragement!!!! lol
 
Drilling a hole is a piece of piss. If I were you I would do both and see if you have a preference.

To plumb the esky make sure you don't drill the hole too big (pilot then use a spade bit), use thread tape on the all thread and use rubber or silicon washers in addition to locknuts. Test with hot water for leaks before use. It's not hard.

You can make great beer with extract and **** beer with AG. There's a lot more going on in beer making than where the ingredients come from.

However if all things are completely equal then fresh, good quality ingredients will give a better result than manufactured/convenience type ingredients. This is the same with anything whether cooking or brewing.
 
Drilling a hole is a piece of piss. If I were you I would do both and see if you have a preference.

To plumb the esky make sure you don't drill the hole too big (pilot then use a spade bit), use thread tape on the all thread and use rubber or silicon washers in addition to locknuts. Test with hot water for leaks before use. It's not hard.

You can make great beer with extract and **** beer with AG. There's a lot more going on in beer making than where the ingredients come from.

However if all things are completely equal then fresh, good quality ingredients will give a better result than manufactured/convenience type ingredients. This is the same with anything whether cooking or brewing.

as Gerard from ndbrewing once said to me..
It's like trying to turn an oxo cube or a mcdonalds beef patty back into a steak..
once the malt has been "processed" it's been processed and you can't undo it
of course you can put _some_ grain flavour back, with steeping but it somehow lacks some freshness.

You can make perfectly good beer from extract but I'd you are keen to go from



"nice homebrew" to "omfg that is the best beer I have _ever_ had ... You didn't really make that did you?"
 
Hey jkirky,
i also needed encouragement to go AG. I used BIAB as a bridge to AG, I did one BIAB and found just how easy it actually is to brew from grain. I picked up a cheap eBay esky and a braided hose for my manifold. I used a threaded pipe through the esky wall then trimmed some old rubber tire tube and used that for gaskets both sides.
Here's a link to my povo but effective setup, hasn't changed much after 9 AG brews. The last three have seriously been some of the best beer I have ever had, really better than anything I thought I could throw together.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=41749
I still use my 15L pot for heating water on the stove. As discussed voile still has plenty of uses now too.
Let us know how you go :)
 
As some people have said - BIAB is just another method of AG. What I think you are primarily talking about here is stovetop BIAB as mainly described by NickJD. A worthy way to start out an AG career without spending any/much cash.

But you say you have some cash to spend - so you have some choices. You could go full sized BIAB - which is the simplest and easiest way that I know of to brew AG. But it does mean buying a bigger pot (or acquiring a keg and modifying it) and most probably a burner. This is the course of action I strongly recommend if the plan is to get into AG brewing regularly. Why?? Because BIAB is the most newbie friendly way to brew that I am aware of - to be sure, other ways of brewing aren't really that hard - but BIAB is the easiest. Full size BIAB being even easier than the stovetop methods... you basically buy your simplicity with the bit of extra cash. You are talking 1 pot, 1 bag, 1 water addition, no sparging, no dilution simplicity - but a bit of cash for the pot.

The best part is, if you do decide that you want go with a multi vessel system later - you haven't actually spent any money that you wouldn't have spent anyway. What did you buy? A pot that you need to buy anyway. So its a no loss proposition.

If you already have a 19L pot.. then I reckon you should

1. - buy some voile, make up a bag and have a crack at either some smaller batches of "plain" BIAB - or use NickJD's stovetop method if you want to brew bigger batches. Cost... less than $10

2. - Buy a 60L aluminium pot, a 3 ring burner and some voile for a bigger bag. This will give you a BIAB system capable of making full AG. Perfect for single batches and capable of pushing out a double batch with a bit of care. You may decide to never move on from this - you certainly don't need to. With that system you can make every type of beer and plenty of it at top quality. Cost - $150-200

3. - If you do decide to move onto a multi vessel system. Then you already have your burner and boil kettle - you just need to decide on your mash tun and HLT. Cost - sensibly another $100-$200 depending on your choices. There is no real upper limit though. You can spend thousands if you decide you want to. Hell my mash tun alone cost more than $700. I love it and all - but the beer is not really any better than when I was using an $11 plastic tub.

Its a nice progression through cost and it allows you to stop, spend as long as you want on each step (or stay there permanently) and move on if and when you are ready and have the cash. My personal opinion is that step one is exactly that - a stepping stone. Except in quite special circumstances, you are very unlikely to stay with it in the long term, you will most likely move on to step 2 or 3 - and I think you are more likely to brew better beer when you do. Steps 2 & 3 are legitimate final destinations in their own right... but unless you are an unusual fish indeed, no matter which choice you make, you will be tweaking and modfying your system for years to come - its all part of the fun.

First things first though -- Do you have fermentation temperature control?? ie: a fridge with a tempmate or something similar. If you don't, then that is where you should be spending your money - not on AG. You will get a better return in quality improvement of your beer by getting temp control and sticking with extract/partials than you will by going AG and having no temp control. Sorry to be a wet blanket at the AG recruitment party... but its the truth.

Cheers

TB
 
What I think you are primarily talking about here is stovetop BIAB as mainly described by NickJD.

And I just do that to show noobs an easy way to make AG beer ... for my own brews I have a massive $8000 HERMS system :lol: -_-
 
I was asking myself the same question, and I was ready to buy a nice SS false bottom for my esky, then I realised I would really need a 50L pot at some point in the future for full batches anyway.

So I just bought a 50L pot and used it for BIAB instead. Saved myself ~$100 or so, and a lot of time screwing around.
 
I dont have temp control via a powered fridge, but I do have a non operational freezer which is insulated to maintain my temps. I also have a brewmate heater for keeing the temps up when required. IMy brew temps remain constant this way. Very rare fluctuation of temps- however I am limited to ales at around 18 degrees.

In my opinion, I have achieved what what i want with extract brewing. Sure some of my techniques can be slightly improved, but i am not trying to win competitions. I am trying to move to AG for both interest as well as improving my brewing skills. I dont think the fact that i dont have an operational fridge should stop me from moving to AG.

I have an old keg which I can cut up and convert into a pot if required for a bigger brew kettle.

I think I will stick with BIAB on the stove top. I have a two ring gas burner which brings the 19 litre pot up without much trouble. I also have an lpg burner which i can use if i need to.
 
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