BIAB Newbie

[Tangle Foot]

Hi All,

For the last 12 months I've been trying my hand at BIAB. Generally, I can do about one 5 Gallon batch per month. So, after some 10 or so brews, I've produced a couple of good beers, some ordinary ones, and a couple batches I wouldn't let a mate drink.

I'm doing BIAB in a 40L Crown urn. All good, but the last two batches, I have forgotten to lift the bag at the end of the mash and only realised once I got to boil. The first of these is now in my keg and has conditioned for 5 weeks - and it tastes pretty bad. It was supposed to be an Irish Red, but tastes doughy. I assume there is no recovery for this brew, and that it is not likely to improve much in the keg. The second of these is in the fermenter, and due to be kegged this weekend. I'm not holding our much hope for this either.

The main question I have for people is about water. I have tank water only - through living on a rural property. The tanks are underground, concrete. As a result the water presumably has a lot of carbonates dissolved in it, and my pH is up around 8. It's fine for drinking, but nowhere near the target pH for brewing.

First of all, can I get a water test somewhere - if so where - so I know what kind of water I actually have.

Second, is it worth putting in an RO system so I can get more neutral water for brewing.

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Drewgong]

sounds like you get drunker than me on brew day I would dump the keg mate . I'm no expert with water I just use tap water at the moment. I'm pretty sure with ro water you have to add elements to it maybe your better off finding cheap bulk spring water like the big bottles you see on water coolers.

 

[solidute]

Check out fast homebrew on YouTube he brews biab in a crown urn.

Im no expert but I wouldn't be worried much about the water unless you are trying to enter a competition. As far as i know you should be able to make decent beer from rain water and most tap water

 

[wynnum1]

Have the tanks been cleaned out plus you could get a small tank or drum and divert some water off the roof to brew. with

 

[gone brewing]

Do you know any other AG brewers in your area? I'd start by trying a beer of theirs that you like, getting the recipe and making it yourself with their water (I assume they would give you the 40L or so that you need), then making it a second time with your own water. Look to see where the difference is coming in to see if it's your water or your process.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Two things you can do get some 'pH down' or go down the RO track, personally I would invest in the RO and use it for your drinking water as well.

 

[Tangle Foot]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Is there any one around the Tamborine/ Beaudesert area doing AG brews from tank water? If so, I’d love to catch up. My brew buddies are on the Nirth side of Brisbane.

 

[Tangle Foot]

sounds like you get drunker than me on brew day I would dump the keg mate . I'm no expert with water I just use tap water at the moment. I'm pretty sure with ro water you have to add elements to it maybe your better off finding cheap bulk spring water like the big bottles you see on water coolers.

I’m going to blame it on the visitors I had on new day [emoji14]

 

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Before you go down the RO route ensure it will work with your tank supply. My understanding of RO systems is that they need decent mains pressure to work, hence utilities like to know when you install them.

Secondly, learn to correct for your ph. You will need to get your water tested. The biggest improvements I water treatment come from chloramine removal and pHcorrection.

And lastly, hoist your bag mate!

 

[Tony121]

PH of 8 is no big deal for water - mine in Sydney is the same.

Knowing your mash PH is really what you want.

 

[MHB]

Being rural and with a concrete tank (and/or tiles) no surprise you have a bit of carbonate in your water.
Tank water is probably fine for brewing, if just a bit low in some minerals and a bit high in bacteria. Going ROMo is probably a bit of an overkill, just a filter to take out crap (literally and dead mosquitoes, bits of birds, frogs...) ideally a sterile filter would be best, but I wouldn't trust that for brewing water unless it went through the boil (so not safe for dilution or rinsing equipment unless boiled).

You don't have to worry about Chlorine or Chloramines, the Carbonate from the concrete comes to about 0.01ppm (mg/L) to give you a pH of 8, a little acid will counteract that pretty easily I use food grade Lactic Acid, some people prefer Phosphoric and these are clearly the two best choices. I prefer lactic because about 90% of the naturally occurring acidity in pale malt comes from naturally occurring Lactic Acid on the malt, so I'm just adding a bit more of something that is already there.

Tank water can be wonderful or a bit of a disaster, you can get quite high bacteria counts, also dust can bring some heavy metals or there can be agricultural pesticides... a good Particulate followed by a Carbon filter should give you pretty clean water, still boil it before it goes into the brew.

Be well worth adding a bit of Calcium in the form of Calcium Chloride and/or Calcium Sulphate (I use Calcium Lactate for a lot of beers). You could easily just add 100-150ppm of Calcium or spend a lot of time working out an exact mineral profile for each beer (different subject), but if your new, just get the Calcium in there.
Mark

 

[Tangle Foot]

Thanks again for all great feedback. I will look into filtering the water that comes from the tank, and adding some extra carbonates. Also will check pH of mash for my next brew to see where it’s sitting.

 

[MHB]

No don't add Carbonates!
You want to lower the pH (make more acidic) Carbonate will raise the pH.
Adding Ca (Calcium) in the form of CaCl2 or CaSO4 will help lower the pH and add the Ca you want.
If the Ca doesn't get you down to where you want the be, add some acid.
Odds on you will need some acid.
Mark

 

[Tangle Foot]

My bad. I got you. Calcium it is.

 

[Tangle Foot]

Be well worth adding a bit of Calcium in the form of Calcium Chloride and/or Calcium Sulphate (I use Calcium Lactate for a lot of beers). You could easily just add 100-150ppm of Calcium or spend a lot of time working out an exact mineral profile for each beer (different subject), but if your new, just get the Calcium in there.
Mark

Hi Mark,

Just reading your reply again, and wondering how you turn ppm into grams. I want to add Calcium as you’ve suggested and have CaSO4 on hand.

Are you able to explain the calculation?

Thanks
Alex.

 

[MHB]

Well ppm is the same as mg/L (1/1000g/L) as 1000mg/g and 1000mL(g) in 1L, = 1,000,000mg/L
Your Calcium Sulphate is going to be CaSo4.2H2O (Di-Hydrate) turns out that its 23% Ca by weight, rest is SO4 and Water.
If you were putting say 30L of water into your urn and doing no sparge (if you are sparging, treat the sparge water to) and you chose to add 100mg/L you need 30L X 100mg/L = 3000mg (3000/1000mg/g) or 3g
To get 3g of Ca you need, gCaSO4 * 0.23 = 3 or CaSo4 = 3/0.23 = 13g

For CaCl2 its 18% Ca as its CaCl2.6H2O (unless you leave the jar open and it sucks moisture out of the air)
Worth taking a long hard look at your Calcium Sulphate to, it can be more or less hydrated if it wasn't made for brewing, I'm assuming what you have is from a reputable Home Brew Shop (HBS).
Mark

 

[scomet]

Hello Tangle Foot

Good question, a lot of stuff is talked about on here (correctly so) that you don't need to worry about until your brewing is post year 5+. All the above is correct, I would concentrate on your Ph and just tackle that to ensure your in the correct Ph range during your mash, ask around and someone will have a Ph meter then read Brun Water about Ph.

Don't be too concerned about your mistakes and don't be in a hurry to throw them out time can do amazing things to beer. I use RO but you don't need that yet, make small changes to your brewing if you change 3 things (Ph minerals temp) which one had the most effect and on what? Oh and I use a check list cos making mistakes in the brewery is easy and bloody annoying when you have put your heart into the beer.

Look at your Ph first - Good Luck

 

[Tangle Foot]

More great advice Thankyou.

Brewing tomorrow. Borrowed a pH meter and TDS meter. Have a check list with one step in particular highlighted[emoji3]

But brewshop had no lactic acid today.

Will let you guys know how I get on.

Cheers

 

[Tangle Foot]

So I did the brew today. Borrowed a reasonable pH and TDS meter. My tank water is pH 9.3, with 41 ppm TDS. I added 150ppm if Ca ions split evenly between CaCl and CaSO4. Strike water had pH 8.6 and 257ppm TDS.

The mash, measured just after dough in had dropped to pH 5.56. This is close to the recipe target pH of 5.20.

My main concern today is mash efficiency. I’m brewing a Stone n Wood Pacific Ale clone. I hit my temperatures and times, and even remembered to hoist the grain at the right time.

Target SG was 1.045!and I only hit 1.034. All three of my most recent brews have only come in around mid 1.030s.

Not sure how to improve the efficiency.

Cheers

 

[MHB]

Still using malt from Country Brewer?
That's a lot of Carbonate for tank water, is it a new tank.
Mark