Biab Efficiency Vs Grain Bill Graphs

[sean_0]

I've been noticing a strong correlation between the efficiency I get using BIAB and the strength of the beer I'm trying to make. Also I've read posters here talking about how efficiency falls off at higher OGs.

I've just put together some numbers from my last 5 brews and thought people might be interested to see what it looks like. I've got two graphs, one is efficiency vs. the OG of the beer, the other is efficiency vs. the total grain bill for the beer in kgs.

I'll be using this to help me hit targets in the future.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've been noticing a strong correlation between the efficiency I get using BIAB and the strength of the beer I'm trying to make. Also I've read posters here talking about how efficiency falls off at higher OGs.

I've just put together some numbers from my last 5 brews and thought people might be interested to see what it looks like. I've got two graphs, one is efficiency vs. the OG of the beer, the other is efficiency vs. the total grain bill for the beer in kgs.

I'll be using this to help me hit targets in the future.

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View attachment 47433

Great piece of data. This should be a sticky.

I get mid-high 70's with a 5.5-6kg grain bill, but I sparge, which (for some) is against the spirit of BIAB.

Goomba

 

[bcp]

Very useful analysis... Recently calcium adjustments to melbourne water have cranked up my efficiency to around 80% (some of my early batches were around 50%), but i haven't done a high gravity batch since. I'll definitely follow in your footsteps and graph mine to see what my curve looks like.

I get mid-high 70's with a 5.5-6kg grain bill, but I sparge, which (for some) is against the spirit of BIAB.

Put a stick in the ground and someone will start a religious order or hysterical society to protect it's purity.

 

[Strutter]

only done 4 full scale BIAB's and my efficiency is S&^$house, i've tried extra grain, mashouts and sparging...All I can put it down to is I buy my grain milled....Do any any experienced fellow BIABers have any advice..I'm thinking that maybe it's my grain that i should request be crushed finer??

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

only done 4 full scale BIAB's and my efficiency is S&^$house, i've tried extra grain, mashouts and sparging...All I can put it down to is I buy my grain milled....Do any any experienced fellow BIABers have any advice..I'm thinking that maybe it's my grain that i should request be crushed finer??

I buy my grain milled from CB. I don't have those issues and never have. Ross seems to think that grain crush isn't as big an issue with BIAB as some might entertain, though I've read both sides the argument and can't make my mind up.

I do have an intense sparging regime, but it means I hit good efficiency with a higher grain bill.



Goomba

 

[sean_0]

only done 4 full scale BIAB's and my efficiency is S&^$house, i've tried extra grain, mashouts and sparging...All I can put it down to is I buy my grain milled....Do any any experienced fellow BIABers have any advice..I'm thinking that maybe it's my grain that i should request be crushed finer??

Are you treating your water? Melbourne water is quite soft and you will get poor efficiency if you don't treat. bcp mentioned above how his has improved with some treatment:

Recently calcium adjustments to melbourne water have cranked up my efficiency to around 80% (some of my early batches were around 50%)

 

[Strutter]

perhaps the fact that i use 40litre aluminium pot with crab strainer to support bag doesn't allow allow water to circulate with grain then?? Last brew had 6kg grain bill and i sparged/rinsed with 6 litres of water, basically replaced what the grain absorbed, boiled for 90 mins, ended up with 20 litres of wort @ 1042. Any help??

What steps should i be making in water treatment? I also have tank water as an alternitive

 

[stux]

I've been noticing a strong correlation between the efficiency I get using BIAB and the strength of the beer I'm trying to make. Also I've read posters here talking about how efficiency falls off at higher OGs.

I've just put together some numbers from my last 5 brews and thought people might be interested to see what it looks like. I've got two graphs, one is efficiency vs. the OG of the beer, the other is efficiency vs. the total grain bill for the beer in kgs.

I'll be using this to help me hit targets in the future.

View attachment 47432

View attachment 47433

What about efficiency vs Liquor to Grain ratio?

And are you talking mash/boil efficiency? or Brewhouse (into Fermenter) efficiency?

 

[amiddler]

Yes correlations are high but 14% Eff drop when the SG goes up 14 points. Dropping 1% for every extra SG point you want, I think is a huge loss. Have you thought of doing a longer boil for your higher SG brews? The extra water in the mash might help your efficiency then just boil it off to get the SG you require.
Disclaimer: I don't BIAB but have some brewing knowledge.

Drew

 

[Strutter]

What about efficiency vs Liquor to Grain ratio?

And are you talking mash/boil efficiency? or Brewhouse (into Fermenter) efficiency?

Into the fermenter, I'm still not 100% sure how to read eff before it goes to fermenter as i no chill and read that hydrometers dont like being place into hot wort

Do i take a sample of hot wort, wait for it to cool and see how i went?

I've tried taking pre boil samples however this has further confused me to where i'm at due to i still to this day cant judge my boil off, do i just boil the ass off it then top up with water in fermenter to req gravity and throw any pre concieved feermenter volumes out the window?

 

[sean_0]

And are you talking mash/boil efficiency? or Brewhouse (into Fermenter) efficiency?

It's brewhouse/into fermenter efficiency, guess mash efficiency would be a bit better, a few percent anyhow.

Yes correlations are high but 14% Eff drop when the SG goes up 14 points. Dropping 1% for every extra SG point you want, I think is a huge loss. Have you thought of doing a longer boil for your higher SG brews? The extra water in the mash might help your efficiency then just boil it off to get the SG you require.
Disclaimer: I don't BIAB but have some brewing knowledge.

Drew

At the moment I'm limited in how much liquid I can mash with/boil due to to pot size. To be honest the efficiency loss doesn't really bother me, I just need to know in advance what it will be so I can tweak the recipe. An extra dollar or two for grain is no biggie for me, so I won't be chasing higher efficiency for now.

 

[Acasta]

What about efficiency vs Liquor to Grain ratio?

What about this sean 0.

Im assuming as the grain volume goes up, your mash water stays the same, therefore your mashing thicker and not getting that full volume ratio that makes BIAB work well. If you kept a steady L/G I think you'd notice less drop in eff.

 

[sean_0]

What about this sean 0.

Im assuming as the grain volume goes up, your mash water stays the same, therefore your mashing thicker and not getting that full volume ratio that makes BIAB work well. If you kept a steady L/G I think you'd notice less drop in eff.

Ya, I'm guessing that's the key thing here. As I mentioned before I'm limited in the amount of water I can mash into due to pot size, so can't increase the amount of water for bigger beers at the moment. I don't have figures to hand for that but it would vary with the grain bill as mash water volume is constant in my system for now.

Note to self: get bigger pot! :icon_cheers:

 

[Nick JD]

Ramping up to mash out temperatures with high grain:water ratios will help heaps with efficiency.

Also, I've found that while a fine crush will allow the enzymes better access to all the grain, it has a habit of acting to retain more sugaz - so the two can cancel each other out a bit if you're mashing thick.

 

[Acasta]

Haha, yeah I started on BIAB and everything worked by the amount of water I could fit before it over flowed... Now on a 3V I doing calcs and using software. Kinda fun.

 

[bcp]

perhaps the fact that i use 40litre aluminium pot with crab strainer to support bag doesn't allow allow water to circulate with grain then?? Last brew had 6kg grain bill and i sparged/rinsed with 6 litres of water, basically replaced what the grain absorbed, boiled for 90 mins, ended up with 20 litres of wort @ 1042. Any help??

What steps should i be making in water treatment? I also have tank water as an alternitive

:icon_offtopic:
What worked for me:
* Water adjustments (calcium chloride and sometimes calcium sulphate. But mine is melbourne Cardinia water)
* Lifting and stirring the bag half way through
* A slightly finer crush - i think.
* Ramping up to mash out temperatures as nick suggested.
* With a very high gravity beer I will sparge the bag also. Otherwise I don't bother.

Tank water will need treatment as it is usually lacking in trace elements.

 

[Strutter]

I forgot to mention that i mash for 90 mins.....I think i'll ask site sponsor for finer crush next order and see how i go

 

[Nick JD]

perhaps the fact that i use 40litre aluminium pot with crab strainer to support bag doesn't allow allow water to circulate with grain then?? Last brew had 6kg grain bill and i sparged/rinsed with 6 litres of water, basically replaced what the grain absorbed, boiled for 90 mins, ended up with 20 litres of wort @ 1042. Any help??

What steps should i be making in water treatment? I also have tank water as an alternitive

Just to make sure - that's 20L of 1.042 at 20 degrees C? If so, that's like 40% efficiency. Something's vastly wrong.

Have you checked your thermometer's accuracy? How are you insulating your pot.

Can you give more details about your technique?

 

[Strutter]

Just to make sure - that's 20L of 1.042 at 20 degrees C? If so, that's like 40% efficiency. Something's vastly wrong.

Have you checked your thermometer's accuracy? How are you insulating your pot.

Can you give more details about your technique?

It's 20L in the fermenter at 20 degrees, using the old sticker on the side.

Last brew i made on sunday was yours actually. Used 3kg Pils and 3kg Wheat and some dark, you know the one where u demonstrated step mashing. I just upped the grain bill to try and get close to where it should be gravity wise according to my usual crap eff. Insulate with an old doona topped with beech towels. Only lose 1 degree over an hour normally, last brews loss's were minimal due to only resting for 30 min max periods. I'm a persistent old bugger and will plough ahead however i hate f#$%ing things up continually. Who was it who said that to the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the first sign of madness?

Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[felten]

The more grain there is, the more sugar you will lose to absorbtion as well, a few litres can make a big difference in your efficiency.

I definitely lose efficiency with a bigger grainbill, but never below 70%. Looking BS I usually get ~72% with a 7.5kg grain bill, which is my setups limit. (no sparge, 25L knockout)

perhaps the fact that i use 40litre aluminium pot with crab strainer to support bag doesn't allow allow water to circulate with grain then??

The bag should be lining the sides of the pot, the grain needs all the room it can get.

Ross seems to think that grain crush isn't as big an issue with BIAB as some might entertain

Also agree with this 100%.