BIAB and No chill - Beers coming out overly hoppy

[thejez72]

Hello fellow brewers,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was looking to get some advice from those experienced in the No Chill method. So far I've brewed 5 x 20L batches in my 35L Digiboil using BIAB. I'm making my way through Brewing Classic Styles brewing my preferred style in ales. I've been using the No Chill method as I've not yet invested in a wort chiller. The two English ales and Aussie sparkling ale I brewed turned out fine. But, my last two attempts at brewing American pale ales have been a big fail - a pale ale and an amber ale. Both have turned out overly hoppy (not bitter, just hoppy - or fruity) to the point where by my taste I will be dumping both batches. I have not been adjusting the timing of hop additions but I have been hitting my target gravities. My thinking is the English ales & Aussie sparkling ale turned out fine as they're more malt forward beers, not the case with the American ales.

Do you gents think I can fix this problem by adjusting the timing of hop additions? Or do you recommend just biting the bullet and buying a chilling system in order to brew hoppy ales?

I'll list the hop schedules for all my batches below. All IBUs were calculated using the brewersfriend.com online calculator. I was calculating the hop amounts based on a 23L post boil size. Is that correct? Or should it be based on the approx. 20L batch size?

Any help would be appreciated.

American Pale Ale - UNDRINKABLE - 37 IBU
OG = 1058
FG = 1014
23g Magnum (10.7% AA) @ 60 mins
14g Centennial (9.4% AA) @ 10 mins
14g Cascade (6.5% AA) @ 10 mins
14g Centennial (9.4% AA) @ 0 mins
14g Cascade (6.5% AA) @ 0 mins

American Amber Ale - UNDRINKABLE - 30 IBU
OG = 1056
FG = 1014
22g Magnum (10.7% AA) @ 60 mins
7g Centennial (9.4% AA) @ 10 mins
7g Cascade (6.5% AA) @ 10 mins
7g Centennial (9.4% AA) @ 0 mins
7g Cascade (6.5% AA) @ 0 mins

English Ordinary Bitter - 32 IBU
OG = 1042
FG = 1011
43g EKG (4% AA) @ 60 mins
18g EKG (4% AA) @ 30 mins
18g EKG (4% AA) @ 1 min

English Dark Mild - 17 IBU
OG = 1038
FG = 1012
33g EKG (4% AA) @ 60 mins

Aussie Sparkling Ale - 30 IBU
OG = 1060
FG = 1010
10g Pride of Ringwood (10% AA) @ 60 mins
15g Pride of Ringwood (10% AA) @ 30 mins

 

[Hangover68]

Certainly not over doing the hop additions so not sure why they taste over hopped, I also use no-chill BIAB with just a basic home built kettle with no electrickery. I have an APA on tap with a similar hop schedule except i dry hopped instead of the 0 time additions, flavour is pretty spot on for my taste buds.

You should calculate for your batch size but still i don't think your numbers are OT.

 

[razz]

Jez, I was thinking that you may not have the right setting for "chilling method" in the equipment profiles page. But if that was the problem then they would all be overly hoppy.

 

[MHB]

Maybe you just don't like American C hops
Mark

 

[S.E]

Both have turned out overly hoppy (not bitter, just hoppy - or fruity)

If they are not too bitter and it’s just hop taste/aroma that will fade given time. It sounds like you have the opposite problem to most folk who have trouble getting enough hop flavour or it fading to early in their hop forward beers.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

What is this "overly hoppy" you speak of?

Didn't knew there was such a thing.

 

[user 37368]

Yes take 15 mins off everything.
Cube hop the post boil additions.
You can FWH to carry it through some more
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/what-is-first-wort-hopping/

 

[kadmium]

Wants to brew a "hoppy beer" ... doesn't like a hoppy flavour... wot?

If it was due to the no chill my thoughts would be overly bitter as opposed to overly aroma/flavour as a longer contact time with the wort being hot is almost like an extended hop stand.

You put more hops in your entire beer than I did in the first of my whirlpools. I put over 150g of hops in a 23L batch BEFORE dry hopping. So I don't think, and I'm not being rude, that 56g of hops in your entire beer is anything special. Perhaps don't brew hoppy beers? Not being rude but if you don't like hoppy flavour and aroma why would you chase that style?

 

[Moojie]

I'm using exactly the same method and equipment, only staring out though, (2 AG batches in) I also am looking to get the same book as a reference to build my styles.
To remove some of the hoppieness aroma, if you dont like it, dont use the hops after 20min (to end of boil) i for one, am a tropical hop fan, el dorado, galaxy and the like, so most of my additions so far, are after the 20 min mark, and dry hopping, where both the flavor and aroma of the hop are apparent.

Something i'm yet to research about, is the effect on the hop additions in a cubed (and shelved for a durtion over 1 month) wort, if that extracts further bitterness from the hops during the boil.

 

[thejez72]

Thank you for the responses everyone, much appreciated. I'd already bought ingredients for one more American ale. I will try to adjust the timing of hop additions for no chill. If I'm still not happy with the result will likely give up on the style for now.

As a side note, does anyone have a good resource for recipes of Aussie pale ales/sparkling ales. I'm not at the point of creating my own recipes but would love to brew more of the styles I've grown up drinking.

Perhaps don't brew hoppy beers? Not being rude but if you don't like hoppy flavour and aroma why would you chase that style?

I have only tasted 2 examples of APA, and they definitely weren't such a hop flavour assault. I suppose I was looking to brew something more akin to the pale ales we have in Aus. I've tasted plenty of high IBU/high hop IPAs which I've enjoyed, but I'd describe my APA and amber ale as unpleasant.

If they are not too bitter and it’s just hop taste/aroma that will fade given time. It sounds like you have the opposite problem to most folk who have trouble getting enough hop flavour or it fading to early in their hop forward beers.

I'll definitely give them some extended time in the garage. After a few months if they're still unenjoyable I'll either dump it or try to give it away to a hop fiend.

Yes take 15 mins off everything.
Cube hop the post boil additions.
You can FWH to carry it through some more
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/what-is-first-wort-hopping/

Do you mean you would have the same hop quantities but adjust the timing? So a 60 min addition @ 45 min, 30 min addition @ 15 min etc...?
My understanding of cube hopping is that you'd put the hops in a mesh bag, place it in the cube, then fill with the hot wort. Is that correct?

 

[user 37368]

I don't even use a hop sock, I just throw the hops in. Usually there's cold break and stuff I exclude from tipping in the fermenter too.

 

[golfandbrew]

I have only tasted 2 examples of APA, and they definitely weren't such a hop flavour assault. I suppose I was looking to brew something more akin to the pale ales we have in Aus. I've tasted plenty of high IBU/high hop IPAs which I've enjoyed, but I'd describe my APA and amber ale as unpleasant.

Which two were they? I find that Aussie made APA's use too much crystal malts and result in a sweeter tasting and subdued hop character in the beer. While crystal malts may be a signature of APA I thinks hard to find them that strike the right balance.

If the two you tasted were imports they were probably not very fresh and the hop character had faded.

 

[BrewLizard]

As a side note, does anyone have a good resource for recipes of Aussie pale ales/sparkling ales. I'm not at the point of creating my own recipes but would love to brew more of the styles I've grown up drinking.

Coopers green pale ale is widely cloned and easy to find a recipe for. It's a bit bland for my taste, but when I find it at a bar as the only ale option (with the rest as macro lagers), I do prefer it to water.

What I'd recommend trying perhaps, is the Scottish Export from Brewing Classic Styles. It's a flavourful beer with an interesting technique (you boil some of your wort to achieve darkening/"caramelisation" in place of crystal malts. It also has some nice hoppiness without the fruity flavours it seems you don't overly like. I think I made it with 100% EKG.

 

[grandadrob]

I late hop with 100gm at 4 minutes and 100 gm at 2 minutes as I find adding hops at 0 or minus 5 minutes gives a fruity cloudy beer.