Beware The Blue Cube

[buttersd70]

If you read the initial post I was sharing my experiences with the cube, and looking for advice. And got some good answers (from others). Maybe I just havent broken in my cube properly. This is something that isnt widely documented (not in the no chill wiki actually).

If you could perhaps suggest a way I may have made plastic leach from the cube (apart from boiling wort coming into contact with it), then I am all ears and I promise I wont have a hissy fit :wacko: . But it looks like you would rather be counterproductive.

I seem to remember TB talking extensively about blind triangle tasting on freshly prepared cubes previously....and he's not the only one. There was an entire thread dedicated to it....Trevc did one, if i remember correctly.....amongst others.

 

[HoppingMad]

At the risk of going off topic from gist of this thread I have to agree with thirsty boy.

In the bulk of cases (or cubes) a bunch of boiling water, and some time in the sun prior to using your cube for the first time will see it in good enough condition to use for no-chill without the 'plasticy taste'. As butters alluded this has been covered in a previous post or two.

Don't add boiling hot water and a dose of sunlight to your cube when it's new, and you pretty much have to wear it in over various batches.

That said never used these willow blues myself - just the white aussie disposal ones I have 4 of and have used without issue.

Might steer clear of the blue ones in light of Foles comments, one-off flawed cube or not. Better safe that sorry.

Anyhow - back to the battle at hand. Get back in your corners and come out swinging! Sorry to interupt!

Hopper.

 

[kook]

Thread cleaned up.

Seriously guys, grow up. Post something productive, or don't post at all.

 

[Phrak]

Bravo Kook :icon_chickcheers:

 

[EK]

Perhaps the answer is in your own statement: Perhaps this particular one (or a batch of them) is bad?

I use a clear/translucent/white jerry for my No Chilling. Before I used it I did notice that plastic-like odour and taste from it. Over time, and some boiling water every now and then, the taste went away. I never filled it with biling water, just added a kettle full, sealed it up and shook it about like I was rinsing it. I was particularly sesitive to this taste and made sure that it had gone before I used it for brewing water. I wouldn't have used it for drinking water either until the taste went as I am a bit sensitive to it.

I have just put my third AG beer on earlier today and when tasting the gravity sample, I did not notice any plastic-like taste. Perhaps the material your jerry is made from is breaking down or something.

Have you contacted Willow to see if they had a bad batch or some quality control issues? Many people use the same make of jerry's that you do without problem.

:icon_cheers:
EK

 

[///]

If you read the initial post I was sharing my experiences with the cube, and looking for advice. And got some good answers (from others). Maybe I just havent broken in my cube properly. This is something that isnt widely documented (not in the no chill wiki actually).

If you could perhaps suggest a way I may have made plastic leach from the cube (apart from boiling wort coming into contact with it), then I am all ears and I promise I wont have a hissy fit :wacko: . But it looks like you would rather be counterproductive.

As an experienced brewer, I like the word introspective. It means one gets quite Zen, you know? Ever been there mate, looked at the navel? Sorry to ask if you have shared such expereinces ...

A 'Plastic' profile is also confused with poor down stream sainitation, and a beer infection. There I said it, infection. To be honest, its probably not the cube, but as it got pregressively worse, I'd take my 20 years of brewing experience and say it may be you, not the container. I've filled a few thousand HPDE containers in my time to no ill affect (or that I know), as it apears on my resume.

Did you look downstream at the rest of your equipment? Pull apart all taps or seals and such? Did you repitch yeast from the same batch ... bomb all the equipment with hot causitc and acid cleaner .... etc etc etc?

If you stand as the heartiest brewer and can categorically rule out any infection, I'd say man, your Super-Brewer Man! There is serious science between time and temperature in killing nasties. Same with sanitary cleaning via chemicals. Unless all those avenues are exhausted, well I'd hate to say ... it may not be the container ...

So chill, nuke everything, have a homebrew,

Scotty

 

[Effect]

I did several flushes of bleach and boiling water followed by 2 days in the sun...

never had a problem with all three no chill cubes.

 

[np1962]

At the risk of being called an ar$ehole.....
First, it's the helical wound hose....
then it's the beerline.....
now, it's the cube......

Is it really that, or is it that a poor tradesman is blaming his tools?

Must say I was thinking much the same thing. So many problems with your beers over the last few months and all with a 'plasticy' taste. Perhaps you
have some other problems.
Yes, I do know you have been right through your processes and have brewed some good beers but this taste keeps reappearing.
For what it's worth I bought 2 new cubes, no not blue ones, two weeks ago. They had a smell of virgin plastic, napisan rinse, sanitised with bleach/vinegar solution at no rinse strength and filled with hot wort within 6 hours, not a sign of any plastic taste in the beers that were no chilled in them.

yeah thats it mate. your a genius.

What a ridiculous reaction, you seem to be unreceptive to any suggestion that you may have a problem that cannot be blamed on a piece of equipment. you need to open your mind or I fear you will continue to have these recurring problems.
Nige

 

[///]

What a ridiculous reaction, you seem to be unreceptive to any suggestion that you may have a problem that cannot be blamed on a piece of equipment. you need to open your mind or I fear you will continue to have these recurring problems.
Nige

Yes, perhaps sit crossed legged, close ones eyes and deep breathe I reckon. Sometime you need to breath deep cos' that hurts, or cos the curse has hit the brewery, and you cannot admit so ....

 

[Tony]

carefull fellas...... carefull!

 

[EK]

A 'Plastic' profile is also confused with poor down stream sainitation, and a beer infection. There I said it, infection. To be honest, its probably not the cube, but as it got pregressively worse, I'd take my 20 years of brewing experience and say it may be you, not the container. I've filled a few thousand HPDE containers in my time to no ill affect (or that I know), as it apears on my resume.

Just curiously, is there an off-flavour in beer that tastes like plastic? I ask because I don't know. From what I have read and experienced: the off-flavours are more like strong natural (not necessarily pleasant) flavours that are a result of poor brewing conditions. Is there one that tastes like new HDPE?

Also: "flavours got worse", could not this be some progressive breakdown of the HDPE?

-EK

 

[kook]

Just curiously, is there an off-flavour in beer that tastes like plastic?

Some phenols can have a plastic or rubber like aroma. It's not an uncommon characteristic of a bacterial infection.

The BJCP scoresheet: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/SCP_BeerScoreSheet.pdf covers some of the descriptors quite well.

 

[eamonnfoley]

I poured boiled water into the cube last night. tasted it this morning. EXACT same taste. I do not have an infection, it IS the cube. Is this not clear enough?? Unless of course tap water also suffers from the same bacterial infections as beer. When I say it gets worse, i mean from one batch to the next as the cube appears to have broken down.

Just to clarify. The problems I had with the helical pvc hose were a completely different taste - much much worse. And they are long behind me. I know its easy to put the two together. If i was any more sanitary the whole caper would just not be worth it!

I'm asking reasonable questions and getting cut to pieces by several people on their high horses. You didnt see any of my posts needing to be deleted, did you.

FFS

 

[Scruffy]

Err, at 20 shitters a pop, can't you just buy another?

 

[InCider]

Err, at 20 shitters a pop, can't you just buy another?

Best solution Scruffy - that will rule out the cube - then you'll just have to look at the source of the flavour.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Best solution Scruffy - that will rule out the cube - then you'll just have to look at the source of the flavour.

Or better, ditch the plastic, get a glass fermenter (or stainless ) and fire that plate chiller of yours back up.

 

[np1962]

I poured boiled water into the cube last night. tasted it this morning. EXACT same taste. I do not have an infection, it IS the cube. Is this not clear enough?? Unless of course tap water also suffers from the same bacterial infections as beer. When I say it gets worse, i mean from one batch to the next as the cube appears to have broken down.

Just to clarify. The problems I had with the helical pvc hose were a completely different taste - much much worse. And they are long behind me. I know its easy to put the two together. If i was any more sanitary the whole caper would just not be worth it!

I'm asking reasonable questions and getting cut to pieces by several people on their high horses. You didnt see any of my posts needing to be deleted, did you.

FFS

Foles,
I see no-one cutting you to pieces, just several people giving you an alternate perspective on your problems.
It appears you have decided what the problem is and have shut off to any other possibilities.
I therefore officially give up and will not offer any further suggestions to you. Will you in turn stop 'warning' us about the many plastic products many of us use in our brewing without the problems you are experiencing.
I do not own a high horse and the deleted posts were the result of the forum troll baiting his usual target one time too many!
Goodbye and I do hope you are one day able to brew consistently good beer on your system.
Cheers
Nige

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

I use the willow brand blue jerry. I dont notice any off flavours. I always clean them out & sterialize after use. After 2? years of use, I had one that started to crack near the top corner, probably from the heat and having the air pocket squeezed out of it. It went into the recycle bin.

When you say "steralise" is that water at 80c + for 20 minutes? In the industry I work in that is regarded as sterilising, or the use of steam. A short rinse with hot water in my experience is not sufficient to sterilise. Not trying to be smart I am just trying to get a much clearer picture on brewers techniques. I use the blue cube occasionally for lagering.

Cheers
BYB

 

[Dazza_devil]

I poured boiled water into the cube last night. tasted it this morning. EXACT same taste. I do not have an infection, it IS the cube. Is this not clear enough?? Unless of course tap water also suffers from the same bacterial infections as beer. When I say it gets worse, i mean from one batch to the next as the cube appears to have broken down.

Just to clarify. The problems I had with the helical pvc hose were a completely different taste - much much worse. And they are long behind me. I know its easy to put the two together. If i was any more sanitary the whole caper would just not be worth it!

I'm asking reasonable questions and getting cut to pieces by several people on their high horses. You didnt see any of my posts needing to be deleted, did you.

FFS

Sounds like that infection you had has left a lasting nasty taste in your cube. One wich would be even more noticeable in any water that may be contained in the vessel.
Best advise, get another and revise sanitation methods.
My one and only cube stunk that much when I bought it that I thought I'de never be able to use it but a good soak, bit of starsan and a good airing out and it smelled fresher than my water.
You do store it with the lid off?
A process of elimination would recquire the investigation of all probable causes.

 

[Guest Lurker]

So.....it seems to me the information of use to the brewing community in this thread is
A brewer in Perth has noted a plastic taste he believes is associated with a jerry can and suggests people should be aware of this.
Some regular users of similar containers note they dont have this problem.
Some regular users of similar containers note they potentially would have this problem if they didnt condition and flush the containers before use.
Some experienced brewers note that a plastic taste could also be a result of infection, so in general brewers should be wary of immediately attributing the taste to the container.

And at that point the thread seems to have served its intended purpose and I am closing it.