Beware The Blue Cube

[eamonnfoley]

I started using one of those blue jerry can cubes for no chill (from bunnings). Was skeptical at first but saw it being used by a few brewers so thought it would be ok.

Anyhow, I thought I was having slight yeast bite problems - as beer tasted a little funny on the first pour. But otherwise good. Gradually got worse, to the point where my last 3 batches had a horrible plastic taste especially after sitting in the lines. First thought was that my beer lines were dirty. My next thought was that the lines were somehow buggered - replaced them, and tried different taps etc.

Started suspecting wild yeast, but thought it was very unliklely. So I decided to pour some boiling water into my cube. Came back this morning and had a taste. The EXACT same horrible plastic taste. :icon_vomit:

My experiment with no-chill is officially over. 3 batches down the sink this morning as there is no hope for them. This particular cube was never good enough, and by the 5-6 batch it has degraded to the point where is is a possible health hazard. It might be wise for someone with good knowledge of the various cubes to set up a wiki on which ones are safe to use and which ones to avoid.

Cheers,

Foles.

 

[beers]

sorry to hear about you having to dump your beer foles. reusing the commercial fresh wort containers has always worked well for me

 

[redbeard]

I use the willow brand blue jerry. I dont notice any off flavours. I always clean them out & sterialize after use. After 2? years of use, I had one that started to crack near the top corner, probably from the heat and having the air pocket squeezed out of it. It went into the recycle bin.

 

[eamonnfoley]

I use the willow brand blue jerry. I dont notice any off flavours. I always clean them out & sterialize after use. After 2? years of use, I had one that started to crack near the top corner, probably from the heat and having the air pocket squeezed out of it. It went into the recycle bin.

Mine is the same willow one. Plastic flavours were hidden early on, but have really come out now. Yeah I clean and sterilise as well, but thats probably got very little to do with it. I'm surprised yours has lasted. Anyhow its just a warning.

 

[daemon]

Is it just one you've had trouble with or a number of them? I've got two of the willows cubes for no-chill and haven't ever noticed any off flavours. Each has had at least 10 batches through them without any problems. I rinse them once I've poured into the fermenter and then soak in no-name nappisan for 3-4 days if required.

You could try a bit of bleach in some water and leaving them out in the sun for a few days. The bleach should remove some of the off-flavours and the UV light will as well.

 

[eamonnfoley]

just the one - maybe it was a faulty one who knows.

 

[Bribie G]

I have a Willow cube for no chill but it's a colourless one I bought about a year ago, I don't know if you can still get them. I have a blue one, later model I guess, but I fitted a tap to that and only use it for the occasional secondary. FWIW the first time I used the blue one for cold conditioning it produced a Yorkie that took out a mini comp at BABBs last November, but it's not been subjected to heat.

Edit: used it for cold conditioning not no chilling

 

[buttersd70]

I use blue willows for NC....I hate to think how many uses they've had. Never had a plastic taint in the beer. I've had lots of NC beers by other brewers that also use them, never had a plastic taint in the beer. Ever. That being said, these cubes were properly prepared for NC, by having a few rounds of boiling water passed through them first, as is standard NC practice. Beers have ranged from big malty best bitters, to apas, to delicately balanced summer epa's....

 

[marlow_coates]

I use the brewers selection FWK containers.

Figure they are commercial grade NC cubes, so good enough for me.
No issues yet, but haven't been NCing for long.

Sorry to hear about the beer.
Frustrating as hell when you have to tip a well brewed beer.

Marlow

 

[eamonnfoley]

I had the feeling there would be a few people using them without any perceived problems. Maybe I have a sensitive palate, or my cube was faulty, or wasnt prepared. Either way its a bit of a risk I reckon.

My beer was pretty good but after 5-6 batches - the plastic started to leech to a very noticeable level. THen the water test confirmed the cube was stuffed. Didnt expose the cube to harsh chemicals - the only thing it saw was sodium percarbonate.

THis thread is really for those who might be no chilling and cant work out why their beer is a bit ordinary. If your happy - all is well.

 

[matt white]

I have been using these blue cubes for fermenting, no-chilling and chilling for 10 years with no problems...ever.

Before you ask how do you chill using one....I put the whole thing in my 50 litre boiler and run cold water through the boiler for an hour or two (p.s. Its spring water, not mains supply)

 

[buttersd70]

At the risk of being called an ar$ehole.....
First, it's the helical wound hose....
then it's the beerline.....
now, it's the cube......

Is it really that, or is it that a poor tradesman is blaming his tools?

 

[eamonnfoley]

At the risk of being called an ar$ehole.....
First, it's the helical wound hose....
then it's the beerline.....
now, it's the cube......

Is it really that, or is it that a poor tradesman is blaming his tools?

yeah thats it mate. your a genius.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I use the willow brand cubes - and indeed there were plastic off flavours at first.

I gave them a serious "running in" ie: filled them up with boiling (or near) water, let it cool down, then blind triangle tasted the water compared to water boiled and cooled in glass.

It took a number of repeats of this fill/cool cycle before it was no longer very apparent which was the odd glass out - lots of repeats, tasted by both myself and my wife. I did not use the cube for beer till I could no longer pick up a difference between water cooled in the cube and water cooled in glass.

So I use the same cubes as you and don't have off flavours - but I most certainly would have if I didn't run them in first.

I do the same thing, but with only hot tap water, with new fermenters too; and new hoses - I cant understand why anyone would use anything in their brewing process without checking if it contributed off flavours??

That cube (unless it really is a dodgey one) will get better over time - yours probably only has one or two more runs before it settles down properly. Pity you had to waste beer on the first three times though... finish it off with hot water and give it one more go.

 

[buttersd70]

yeah thats it mate. your a genius.

No mate, I'm not a genius. But it doesn't take a genius to realise that you have a fundamental issue that needs to be addressed. Nor does it take a genius to realise that literally hundreds of other brewers use exactly the same cubes as you, without issue.

 

[Bribie G]

I use the brewers selection FWK containers.

Figure they are commercial grade NC cubes, so good enough for me.
No issues yet, but haven't been NCing for long.

Sorry to hear about the beer.
Frustrating as hell when you have to tip a well brewed beer.

Marlow

At 15 litres I'm thinking of using them as well - I have one already - and ferment in a 20 (actually 23) litre jerry for doing a keg only brew, overgravity of course and "adjust to sale strength" on kegging. Now where have I heard that term, wouldn't be a certain megabrew website would it? Of course I'll need to get another one... hmmm the Pilsener next maybe.

My 40L BIAB setup would just about handle a double batch at those quantities, and two jerries will fit nicely into my ferm. fridge so I'm tempted to give it a go.

Back on topic, re foles' problems I guess at some stage many of us get a less than satisfactory outcome and chase it around and around like chasing an itch on your back, is it the yeast? the cube? HSA? Temperature during the first 24 hours, lack of oxygen? too much oxygen? ... mate been there. Hopefully I'll become experienced enough that I'll get to know instinctively what item is causing what problem.

:icon_cheers:

 

[LLoyd]

Aww c'mon guys, chill. :lol:

Lloydie

 

[eamonnfoley]

No mate, I'm not a genius. But it doesn't take a genius to realise that you have a fundamental issue that needs to be addressed. Nor does it take a genius to realise that literally hundreds of other brewers use exactly the same cubes as you, without issue.

I'll be fine once I'm using my plate chiller again. I should know better than to look for advice from people like yourself. I've had some problems with plastic hoses and cubes - but I've brewed good beer without these things in my system. My fundamentals are fine - but thanks for asking.

 

[buttersd70]

I should know better than to look for advice from people like yourself.

Care to elaborate on that, chief? "People like yourself"....sorry, have we met, and I've forgotten? Or is it that you don't want advice from someone that doesn't have a big girly hissy fit and blame their equipment when something goes wrong? C'mon, say what you actually mean.

 

[eamonnfoley]

If you read the initial post I was sharing my experiences with the cube, and looking for advice. And got some good answers (from others). Maybe I just havent broken in my cube properly. This is something that isnt widely documented (not in the no chill wiki actually).

If you could perhaps suggest a way I may have made plastic leach from the cube (apart from boiling wort coming into contact with it), then I am all ears and I promise I wont have a hissy fit :wacko: . But it looks like you would rather be counterproductive.