Belgian Triple/ipa Recipe

[black_labb]

I'm planning a 40L split batch making a Triple for half of it and a triple/IPA by doing a fair bit of cube hopping in the second cube.

The Triple/base beer reipe is here

Triple


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.750
Total Hops (g): 50.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.081 (P): 19.6
Colour (SRM): 4.0 (EBC): 7.8
Bitterness (IBU): 34.2 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 72
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
5.500 kg Pilsner (81.48%)
0.750 kg Cane Sugar (11.11%)
0.500 kg Flaked Oats (7.41%)

Hop Bill
----------------
40.0 g Perle Pellet (7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (2 g/L)
10.0 g Saaz Pellet (3.6% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Cube hopped) (0.5 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 68C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 18C with Wyeast Forbidden fruit


Recipe Generated with BrewMate



I'm pretty confident the above will do a nice triple if handled well, though I may change my mind as to what hops I use.

I was planning on cube hopping 60ish grams of nelson sauvin in the second cube to make a belgian IPA which I expect would turn out very well, but I'm also thinking that using galaxy and some saaz or hallertau could make for a great belgian IPA as well. I'll be using some wyeast forbidden fruit 3463 yeast as I have a smack pack that I'll make some starters from

I'm thinking to do it along the lines of the Achouffe Houblon where it's not massively bitter but more hoppy in terms of flavour. (pretty sure their IPA is 60ibu which isn't too high for a 9% beer, and it doesn't taste particularly bitter)


Anyone have any experience with brewing belgian IPA's? What worked and what didn't?

 

[Swinging Beef]

The commercial Belgian IPA's and the ones Ive brewed myself, have all come out somewhat confused and muddled tasting.
I feel the aromas of the fruitty belgian yeast and the fruity heavy hops do not combine well.

I would also suggest the grain bill you have for an IPA is lacking in sweet specialty grains and will be very dry seeming with lots of hops.

Still, I recon you should give it a go and see what you think, yourself. Its homebrew, damnit!
B)

The chouffe boys are genius, too. So dont be dissappointed if you cant do as well or better than them.

 

[neonmeate]

belgian IPAs have been my stock beer for a few years now, mainly english IPAs fermented with belgian yeasts though, rather than the tripel with lots of hops sort of idea.

but i personally would steer way clear of hops like galaxy or sauvin with belgian yeasts. too much fruit and high AA hop bite that doesn't blend well with the phenolics, esters, high attenuation and high ABV. spicy/flowery/earthy hops are what i prefer. i like overloading on goldings, hersbrucker, styrian, saaz, tettnang, brewer's gold, etc, like de ranke bitter or poperings hommelbier.

just my opinion you might disagree.

 

[raven19]

I presume you will be sitting on these beers (especially the Tripel) for a while?

I would go a good quality malt in your grist, and don't be afraid to push the yeast a little warmer to get some good esters in the Tripel.

 

[black_labb]

Thanks For the comments everyone.

Regarding the comments about the fruity hops and the fruity yeast. I'm a bit undecided. It does make sense that too much fruitiness can confuse the palate. I do find the Houblon (my only reference in terms of belgian IPA's) to be quite nicely done. I'm wondering if there is less real amarillo flavour than there seems to be due to the rest of the beer. I read some where that they use columbus for bittering, saaz for flavour hopping. The forbidden fruit is apparently not very fruity at all and more spicy which could mean less fruity confusion.

Neonmate, do you have any recipes for what you've been brewing, or is it just pretty standard english IPA's with belgian yeasts? how did your houblon clone end up ( http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=12982&hl= )? did it suffer from fruity complexity that has been mentioned in this thread?

I'm also thinking I could use some challenger hops I have but I'd need to add some high alpha hops as well (target maybe?) or do some extra bittering late if I want to have a bitterness around 60. If going down this route I'd probably add some darker candy sugar during ferment. This would work out to be a nice english Ipa/darker triple.


I'll be using Joe white pilsener as that's what I have (and I have 25kg already crushed due to a mixup, so I need to use it quick).

Yes I'll be sitting on them for a while. I still have my first triple around from over a year ago, though underpitching from a chimay reculture seemed to make it way too phenolic. I did get control over the yeast for a dubble I did later on though which is drinking very nicely 6 months since bottling it.


Thanks everyone

 

[manticle]

Either east kent goldings or styrian goldings work very well late and in higher amounts. I use styrians in Hoppy english beers and belgian beers alike and neonmate's advice about hopped up UK style with belgian yeast is where I'd be looking.

I'd be whacking some munich or something similar to offset some of the dryness and balance the hoppiness. I'd also be looking at a hochkurz regime which I believe has made a massive difference to me knocking out Belgian style beers I actually enjoy.

Have a crack - could be a winner. Some belgians are hoppier than people give them credit for.

For high alpha - northern brewer or target would be my two picks (or the challenger I bought once that was 11.5%) but why do you need to? These days I just hop with what's appropriate to the brew. I buy most hops in 500g amounts anyway so the expense/amount becomes irrelevant. I'd rather use the right thing in the right place.

Malt for me these days for belgians will always be either dingemans or weyermans (or a mix).

 

[drtomc]

My 2c on your recipe is that you might want to mash a few degrees lower. You really want good attenuation for a good tripel.

T.

 

[manticle]

That's why I reckon hochkurz. 62-63 for 10-15 minutes, then ramp it up to 67-68 for the rest. 72 for 10 to get that lacy rocky head.

Seems like a bit of fuss but I wouldn't do one any other way.

 

[neonmeate]

Message flagged
Monday, December 12, 2011 9:21 PM

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=12982&hl=[/url] )? did it suffer from fruity complexity that has been mentioned in this thread?

firstly may i just point out that everyone's getting my name wrong. i am in fact named after this song of the late great don van vliet

back on topic, my recipe is usually single malt grist, something like 1060 og of 100% maris otter, 60 IBU of something noble, and round 100g of saaz or styrian or both for aroma, 3787 is my usual choice of yeast. and have added brett a few times but usually to pils or vienna malt versions. the one i dryhopped with 50g each of tettnang saaz and brewers gold was nice. my current one that manticle and others will be tasting soon is all weyermann vienna, bittering only addition of 90g packet each of hersbrucker and saaz, trappist blend.

that houblon clone was an interesting time. the beer was tasting amazing in the fermenter but there was ... an accident. owing to circumstances beyond my control... it never got bottled. and ive never got round to making it again. i just went into belgian ipas rather than american tripels.

by all means go for the superfruity thing. i think sauvin and galaxy might not be the right fruity hops though. but i havent tried it so what do i know, im just tasting imaginary hops and yeast in my head. reality may well be different to my imagination. however you will want to carefully consider the yeast and temperature. consult the chart in brew like a monk with all the belgian yeasts and their characteristic esters at different temperatures. something like 3787 fermented cool is probably going to leave room for the sauvin to come out in the aroma fine, whereas the chimay yeast could turn out a fruit salad and the rochefort yeast could be a banana split.

 

[neonmeate]

That's why I reckon hochkurz. 62-63 for 10-15 minutes, then ramp it up to 67-68 for the rest. 72 for 10 to get that lacy rocky head.

Seems like a bit of fuss but I wouldn't do one any other way.

i'm not sure that's all necessary manticle.

i always use simple infusions for belgian beers (although i like to decoct for pilseners) and they always seem to get down to very low FGs no problem, even when i've mashed at 68, 69 ! they also get nice heads too no problems.

 

[manticle]

Message flagged
Monday, December 12, 2011 9:21 PM


firstly may i just point out that everyone's getting my name wrong. i am in fact named after this song of the late great don van vliet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6PUUB86qUM...be_gdata_player

Apologies for not using my eyes when I read.

Re the hockhurz: Possibly not necessary but my own experience of brewing Belgians and Germans improved markedly when I started doing this. Give it a shot - if you don't think the difference is worth it, go back to SI (or if your beers turn out the way you want, stick with it). Just what works very well for me.

 

[black_labb]

Neonmeate: Sorry about the name, I should have picked up on that, I was just listening to that album today!

I've mashed using the single infusion at 68* for a few different belgians which worked well attentuation wise (my last triple ended at 1009, though the yeast was underpitched and it's still too phenolic). I've considered mashing at 62 then stepping it up to close to 70 also as I know that is often done in the belgian breweries. I know that's what they do at achouffe as I saw the dial on the mash tun reading 62* on the brewery tour 5 months ago. They didn't tell me how long they kept it at the different temps in the mash though.

I'm considering getting a couple 10L cubes to really figure out what works well, though I might as well just brew a second 40L batch then... I was planning on getting some low alcohol beers brewed though I've failed that since getting back from overseas, nothing I've brewed has been under 1070.

I'll brew it one way or another. Right now I'm leaning towards Galaxy and hallertau late hopped out of curiousity and just because I can imagine it being great, but I'll see. If it doesn't work out the flavours will probably mellow out and blend better a year or 2 down the track into a reasonable beer.

I'll post the finalised recipe when I brew it in a week or so.

 

[Goldenchild]

Unsure if you guys back Home have this beer but living abroad I've recently been sipping on the' flying dogs- raging bitch ' Belgian ipa 8.1% and ibu 60. Amazing drop so been searching for a recipe I've found they use a Belgian wit ale yeast wlp400 under there name el diablo yeast I'm guessing might be copywrite due to being the yeast of hoegardan wit. Anyway the hop schedule has warrior bittering then flavoring and aroma Columbus and Amarillo with dry hopping Amarillo.which works great. Grain bill was just 95% quality pale ale and 5% medium crystal I will be dropping a batch hopefully after Chrissy

 

[black_labb]

Unsure if you guys back Home have this beer but living abroad I've recently been sipping on the' flying dogs- raging bitch ' Belgian ipa 8.1% and ibu 60. Amazing drop so been searching for a recipe I've found they use a Belgian wit ale yeast wlp400 under there name el diablo yeast I'm guessing might be copywrite due to being the yeast of hoegardan wit. Anyway the hop schedule has warrior bittering then flavoring and aroma Columbus and Amarillo with dry hopping Amarillo.which works great. Grain bill was just 95% quality pale ale and 5% medium crystal I will be dropping a batch hopefully after Chrissy

Thanks goldenchild. I saw the beer when in europe earlier this year but ended up grabbing a bunch of belgians instead. I did consider it though

The forbidden fruit yeast I have is used for the hoegarden grand cru and can be used for other wit beers, so maybe the yeast would be pretty suitable for a beer of this style. I'm thinking I'll give it a go anyway. Maybe I'll use a bit of dark candy sugar in there to add a bit more malt backbone (from sugar???).

I'm thinking I'll give the fruity one a try. I can see how a fruity yeast like the westmalle would probably not work out too well though I think this may work out alright.

I'll probably do an english IPA/triple at some stage as well, but I may do a few low alcohol beers before all I have to drink is 8%+ stuff.

 

[Goldenchild]

Thanks goldenchild. I saw the beer when in europe earlier this year but ended up grabbing a bunch of belgians instead. I did consider it though

We are kinda spoiled for choice over here . And usually only around $3-4 aud a strong crafty can totally understand looking over this one.

I'm thinking I'll give the fruity one a try. I can see how a fruity yeast like the westmalle would probably not work out too well though I think this

There's no harm in giving it a go. Ive never used the yeast you talk of do cant comment there but If you google the raging bitch clone and check out the american forum you can read up on what yeasts people have tried (I can't remember of my head) that they say turned out too fruity. Maybe consider splitting and fermenting half with another style yeast.

 

[neonmeate]

Maybe consider splitting and fermenting half with another style yeast.

good idea, this is what stone did with their vertical epic 03 which was kind of a warriored up dubbel.

 

[pbrosnan]

Hi there,

This is a recipe I used for an "AmericoBelgian" experiment that didn't tutn out to bad:


Brew 118

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 27.00 Wort Size (L): 27.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.30
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.78
Anticipated SRM: 4.8
Anticipated IBU: 59.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
79.4 5.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
4.0 0.25 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
4.8 0.30 kg. Crystal 20L America 1.035 20
4.0 0.25 kg. Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) Germany 1.037 2
4.0 0.25 kg. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2
4.0 0.25 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 23.3 70 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 11.9 45 min.
10.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 13.5 45 min.
15.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 5.1 30 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 3.6 15 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 2.2 5 min.
20.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.75 0.0 Dry Hop


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes

 

[black_labb]

Here is the recipe I used. Half went into a cube using this recipe (30g of hallertau and 30g galaxy as opposed to the 60s in the recipe as it is half the size). The other half of it went into another cube (with 6g of coriander seeds and 10g of orange zest).

I decided to use a reasonable amount of hallertau in the cube hopping which should work nicely if my tainted imagnation is anything to go by.


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 40.0
Total Grain (kg): 13.200
Total Hops (g): 170.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.076 (P): 18.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 8.69 %
Colour (SRM): 4.7 (EBC): 9.3
Bitterness (IBU): 59.5 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
11.000 kg Pilsner (83.33%)
1.200 kg Cane Sugar (9.09%)
0.750 kg Flaked Oats (5.68%)
0.250 kg Victory (1.89%)

Hop Bill
----------------
30.0 g Hallertau Aroma Pellet (7.5% Alpha) @ 70 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
20.0 g Pacific Gem Pellet (14% Alpha) @ 70 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
60.0 g Galaxy Pellet (14% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Cube) (1.5 g/L)
60.0 g Hallertau Aroma Pellet (7.5% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Cube) (1.5 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
Infusion at 67C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 20C with


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[ledgenko]

Black_Labb ... why not substitute brown or amber sugar for the cane sugar ... the colour and mouth feel will make the beer closer to the real deal .. after sitting back tonight drinking a beautiful beer with exquisite characteristics that had been eventuated by the use of Jaggery .... I won't look back .. and the brain fuzz after a long neck of 9.5% beer .. awesome

Matt

 

[black_labb]

I should mention that I'll be making my own candy sugar, but I put in cane sugar as I don't know what the % of sugar content of the candy sugar I make will be. I was thinking about an amberish one in the IPA but at the moment I'm leaning towards just a slightly yellow colour for both beers.