Belgian Dark Strong With Dates

[Braumoasta]

Hmm, won't you have gotten a similar thing out of the dates as you would have with dark candy sugar? It is mostly sugar after all, and you've caramelised it the same way... I'd be hesitant to add much more sugar (if any at all), but I'm no expert in these matters...

I also no expert on the matter, but isn't that like saying you might as well make mead out of sugar instead of honey, as honey is mostly sugar anyway? Dates would contain many chemicals which give them their specific flavour profile. You would hope that atleast some of these chemicals would be extracted and end up in the final beer.

 

[stl]

I also no expert on the matter, but isn't that like saying you might as well make mead out of sugar instead of honey, as honey is mostly sugar anyway? Dates would contain many chemicals which give them their specific flavour profile. You would hope that atleast some of these chemicals would be extracted and end up in the final beer.

Right you are, but I think you might have missed my point (sorry if it was unclear). I didn't mean to suggest using the sugary date syrup extracty stuff as a substitute for sugar to make candy syrup...

What I meant was, if the main reason you add candy sugar to the brew is to help dry it out and increase "drinkability" and the second reason is to add those nice caramel flavours, then both goals should have been achieved by the caramelised date syrup anyway (which is mostly simple, highly fermentable sugar if I understand correctly). So there might not be anything more to gain by adding more sugar (candy or otherwise), and indeed you might overdo it...

 

[jyo]

Right you are, but I think you might have missed my point (sorry if it was unclear). I didn't mean to suggest using the sugary date syrup extracty stuff as a substitute for sugar to make candy syrup...

What I meant was, if the main reason you add candy sugar to the brew is to help dry it out and increase "drinkability" and the second reason is to add those nice caramel flavours, then both goals should have been achieved by the caramelised date syrup anyway (which is mostly simple, highly fermentable sugar if I understand correctly). So there might not be anything more to gain by adding more sugar (candy or otherwise), and indeed you might overdo it...

I actually had this in mind when I added some white sugar last night. I am down from 1076 to 1025 in under a week (thankfully my starter was healthy after all).
I decided to only add 380 gm of white sugar boiled in about 300 mls of water, cooled and funneled in. I wondered at the time whether it could have done without it or not.

I am sure that the caramelised flavours will come through -the samples so far suggest this- but time will tell!
Cheers.

 

[Josh]

The point about adding sugar to "dry out" a Belgian beer seems a little confused here. You already have fermenting wort which has a potential FG already set through mash schedule and yeast etc. eg without adding more sugar it would finish at 1.010. By adding some sugar you won't get it down to 1.008. It will still only get to 1.010 because the unfermentables are already in the beer.

So if your target is an OG of 1.070 and a dry Belgian style beer. You shouldn't brew an all malt wort up to 1.070, then add sugar to to dry it out. You should brew a 1.070 wort which already includes your simple sugars. So the malt portion of the wort will only give you about 1.063 before sugar additions bump it up to 1.070 (numbers for example only).

 

[jyo]

Cheers, Josh, taken on board.

It has come down from 1081 (which is accounting for the addition of 380 g sugar at day 5) and has been sitting at 1020 for 2 days now. I was expecting it to come down below this, so I will leave this until Sunday before I check the SG. Ferment has been on the money at 19' the whole time.

I thought I had some fusels when I tasted the other night, though after a sample last night, the alcohols taste more 'prickly' which is a relief.

As this is my first big beer (apart from 2 tins of goop and 1.5 kilos of sugar fermented at 28' in my kit days ) I am wondering-
If the reading stays stable at 1020 for another 3 or 4 days, should I accept the attenuation and CC for a few days, then bottle
Or should I be thinking about rousing the yeast to promote droppping a few more points
Or skip the CC and just leave it sit on the cake for another week. I really don't want to rack to a cube...

Cheers.

 

[drtomc]

I'd hope it would go lower. I just skimmed back through the thread, but I missed what mash temperature you used.

Assuming it was on the low end, I'd advocate rouse/rack and raise the temperature a degree or two and wait.

Which yeast did you go with in the end?

T.

 

[jyo]

Cheers, Dr
I mashed a 67' as per Jamil's instructions. I ended up going with a super fresh pack of 1762 and made a 1 litre starter, pitched it after 3 days. The esters are subtle, yet fantastic...

 

[winkle]

Cheers, Dr
I mashed a 67' as per Jamil's instructions. I ended up going with a super fresh pack of 1762 and made a 1 litre starter, pitched it after 3 days. The esters are subtle, yet fantastic...

Sounds good to me. But I'd try to rouse it and get down to 1.018-ish over a few days.
I did a wheat stout with 1762 that stalled at 1.020 so it may be knackered.

 

[jyo]

Sounds good to me. But I'd try to rouse it and get down to 1.018-ish over a few days.
I did a wheat stout with 1762 that stalled at 1.020 so it may be knackered.

Cheers, Winkle. I'll give her a swirl later on and then tomorrow and see how it goes over the weekend.

 

[jyo]

Just to update this.
I roused once a day for three days and had no gravity drop, so crashed it down to 2' for a few days.

Bottled yesterday after 3 weeks in primary. It tasted fantastic in the samples.

Now, to wait.....I have to try it at 2 months to see where it's heading.

Cheers.

 

[mikk]

The waiting's the hard part! Does it taste 'datey', or does it taste beery with a hint of dates?!

 

[jyo]

The waiting's the hard part! Does it taste 'datey', or does it taste beery with a hint of dates?!

It was tasting really complex -which is to be expected I suppose- but I was getting some aroma in the glass and flavour mid sip. So just a hint...

When I told Mrs jyo I was planning on aging some of this for a couple of years she just rolled her eyes and smiled.....

 

[Spoonta]

howed it turn out mate

 

[vykuza]

You've got me with this recipe jyo. I'll be brewing this tomorrow, using Saphire in stead of Saaz and medjool dates that are so sticky you could plaster them to a wall. Fermenting with the Leuven Ale Yeast and keeping it low and slow during the ferment.

Any last minute hints or tips?

 

[jyo]

howed it turn out mate

Mate, I'll try to get around to yours on the weekend with a sample. It's only 1 month old but I tried one on NYE. It's tasting really promising, a little bit on the cloying side, but I'm hoping this will mellow with age. I think it's going to be a good one.

You've got me with this recipe jyo. I'll be brewing this tomorrow, using Saphire in stead of Saaz and medjool dates that are so sticky you could plaster them to a wall. Fermenting with the Leuven Ale Yeast and keeping it low and slow during the ferment.

Any last minute hints or tips?

I can't comment on the yeast though I think using the fresh dates as you have will be heaps better. As far as the date caramelisation process as outlined above- it worked a treat.
Seriously, if I brew this again I will probably drop the Special B to 300gms or so. With the caraaroma in there too, there are some really strong flavours (which is typical). Then again at 1 month it's hard to tell really where it's going to end up though 1st taste is pretty positive.

I plan to brew an ESB soon using about 2.5% caraaroma and 400 gms of caramelised dates with 1469...

Good luck!

 

[vykuza]

Mate, I'll try to get around to yours on the weekend with a sample. It's only 1 month old but I tried one on NYE. It's tasting really promising, a little bit on the cloying side, but I'm hoping this will mellow with age. I think it's going to be a good one.



I can't comment on the yeast though I think using the fresh dates as you have will be heaps better. As far as the date caramelisation process as outlined above- it worked a treat.
Seriously, if I brew this again I will probably drop the Special B to 300gms or so. With the caraaroma in there too, there are some really strong flavours (which is typical). Then again at 1 month it's hard to tell really where it's going to end up though 1st taste is pretty positive.

I plan to brew an ESB soon using about 2.5% caraaroma and 400 gms of caramelised dates with 1469...

Good luck!

Good stuff, thanks jyo. I'm caramelising the date juice as I type, though I can tell you these dates have not come through with the clear syrup as in your photos, but a much muddier mixture. I strained through a tealtowel as the paper filter I was using wouldn't even let it drip through with all the particulate matter. It smells divine though!

 

[jyo]

Good stuff, thanks jyo. I'm caramelising the date juice as I type, though I can tell you these dates have not come through with the clear syrup as in your photos, but a much muddier mixture. I strained through a tealtowel as the paper filter I was using wouldn't even let it drip through with all the particulate matter. It smells divine though!

Wait til you taste it!
Hope it goes well, mate.

 

[vykuza]

Finally pitched this today. What a wort! The date aroma really comes through in the wort, and it smells like an amazing combo of dates, dark fruits, molasses and rich malt. I would drink it like this if I could.

I missed my gravity targets by 10%, so will be adding some white sugar during ferment to shore up the alc content and hopefully cut some of the dextrines from all the crystal malts. I pitched it on a yeastcake from Wyeast Leuven pale ale, which has just finished fermenting a blonde to get the cell count up.

The blonde came out with a character very similar to the one I get from the French Saison yeast, except rather than being a bit one-dimensional, it's backed up with a HUGE apricot and "stonefruit" flavour. I can't help thinking that it will go very well with the dates and raison-y malt bill. It also chewed the blonde down to 1.007 -from 1.053 mashed at 65c - so it's not afraid to attenuate. Apparent attenuation is 86%.

Will report back in a few days with a prelim sneaky hydro tube taste test.

 

[jyo]

Sounds great, Nick.
Well, I've tried a couple of these now. I think having your FG come down a few more points lower than mine will definitely make it a better beer. It's 7 weeks in the bottle and the flavours are starting to come together now. The caramelisation of the dates are there. Mine is a bit undercarbed for the style due to underpriming, but I can live with that. This is a complex beer! Bit of a chill haze problem, but that's probably the brewer, not the dates

I regret not bottling this in stubbies. Getting through a longneck of 8.5% is great, but....well... :icon_drunk:
I'm really looking forward to how this rounds out by Christmas.
Here 'tis!

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Sounds great, Nick.
Well, I've tried a couple of these now. I think having your FG come down a few more points lower than mine will definitely make it a better beer. It's 7 weeks in the bottle and the flavours are starting to come together now. The caramelisation of the dates are there. Mine is a bit undercarbed for the style due to underpriming, but I can live with that. This is a complex beer! Bit of a chill haze problem, but that's probably the brewer, not the dates

I regret not bottling this in stubbies. Getting through a longneck of 8.5% is great, but....well... :icon_drunk:
I'm really looking forward to how this rounds out by Christmas.
Here 'tis!

View attachment 51809


View attachment 51810

Looks totally Gay good, trust you.
Nev