Belgian Dark Strong With Dates

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Cheers for the replies, guys. I meant to update this yesterday.
I emailed the head brewer at FourPeaks with a couple of questions and he was extremely helpful and quite happy if I shared his response on the forum, so here it is:


John,

Weve done several different applications of dates over the years, but the one that would be best for a homebrewer would be to pit the dates and discard them (very astringent), then add the dates to boiling water and breakdown the sugars into solution. Once youre satisfied with the sugar solution let it cool a bit and run it through some cheese cloth to strain it, and wring out the pulp for any remaining syrup. If you think theres more extract in the pulp you could certainly re-do the process with what remains. We found it was better to then boil just the syrup to evaporate away the water (this will change the color, though). You can then treat it at a simple extract and add it to your boiling wort.

As to percentages, Id say youd have to just experiment with the extract that you make. We used medjool dates (very prevalent around here) which are quite large and have a very high sugar content but any date will work.

The dates dont necessarily impart a huge flavor impact since theyre mostly fructose and will be consumed entirely by the yeast. But the cooking process can create some unique caramelized flavors which will carry over.

Good Luck!
(Name removed)

Four Peaks Brewing Co.

Tempe, Arizona


And then this one-

Good looking recipe. Interested in your water. Lots of potassium in dates, could be a plus though, if sulfites are present. Also, try to control your phenols with that yeast. (Wy 1762) We notice a slight, natural phenolic character with the caramelized date syrup, a Belgian strain can sometimes add to it.
And, sure, share if you like.


I am going to make the extract as he has outlined and add at the last 15 minutes of the boil. See how we go! Next weekend for this one.
Cheers.

EDIT- @ Ged- Where can I get pectinase enzyme, mate?

Nev
I would like to try that when you are finished :icon_chickcheers:

 

[Gar]

very cool, good luck

 

[jyo]

Nev
I would like to try that when you are finished :icon_chickcheers:

Only if it tastes like ****

 

[CosmicBertie]

I dont know much about using the dates, but the Belgian Dark Strong I made a couple of months ago has quite a datey flavour to it. That might be the addition of the candy syrup though. I'd also recommend put in about 10g or crushed coriander seed into the boil at about 10mins, it just helps to add a certain something else to the taste.

Oh, and I used the Abbey Ale II, brewed at 18 for 3 days then ramped it up 1 degree a day for 10 days. Its a damn fine drop. Nice mix of banana, clove, caramel, toffee. lurvely.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Only if it tastes like ****

Ok I will make a place in the cool room. :drinks:

 

[winkle]

Cheers for the replies, guys. I meant to update this yesterday.
I emailed the head brewer at FourPeaks with a couple of questions and he was extremely helpful and quite happy if I shared his response on the forum, so here it is:


John,

Weve done several different applications of dates over the years, but the one that would be best for a homebrewer would be to pit the dates and discard them (very astringent), then add the dates to boiling water and breakdown the sugars into solution. Once youre satisfied with the sugar solution let it cool a bit and run it through some cheese cloth to strain it, and wring out the pulp for any remaining syrup. If you think theres more extract in the pulp you could certainly re-do the process with what remains. We found it was better to then boil just the syrup to evaporate away the water (this will change the color, though). You can then treat it at a simple extract and add it to your boiling wort.

As to percentages, Id say youd have to just experiment with the extract that you make. We used medjool dates (very prevalent around here) which are quite large and have a very high sugar content but any date will work.

The dates dont necessarily impart a huge flavor impact since theyre mostly fructose and will be consumed entirely by the yeast. But the cooking process can create some unique caramelized flavors which will carry over.

Good Luck!
(Name removed)

Four Peaks Brewing Co.

Tempe, Arizona


And then this one-

Good looking recipe. Interested in your water. Lots of potassium in dates, could be a plus though, if sulfites are present. Also, try to control your phenols with that yeast. (Wy 1762) We notice a slight, natural phenolic character with the caramelized date syrup, a Belgian strain can sometimes add to it.
And, sure, share if you like.


I am going to make the extract as he has outlined and add at the last 15 minutes of the boil. See how we go! Next weekend for this one.
Cheers.

EDIT- @ Ged- Where can I get pectinase enzyme, mate?

Hey, a good helpful reply. Top work Four Peaks :icon_cheers:
I'm planning to do something similar using Tamarind.

 

[jyo]

I dont know much about using the dates, but the Belgian Dark Strong I made a couple of months ago has quite a datey flavour to it. That might be the addition of the candy syrup though. I'd also recommend put in about 10g or crushed coriander seed into the boil at about 10mins, it just helps to add a certain something else to the taste.

Oh, and I used the Abbey Ale II, brewed at 18 for 3 days then ramped it up 1 degree a day for 10 days. Its a damn fine drop. Nice mix of banana, clove, caramel, toffee. lurvely.

Cheers. I'll leave the spices for this one though and just see what the dates can do.

Hey, a good helpful reply. Top work Four Peaks :icon_cheers:
I'm planning to do something similar using Tamarind.

Yeah, really helpful bloke.
mmm tamarinds...should be a nice tart finish.

 

[mckenry]

Good stuff. Looking fwd to hearing how this goes.

 

[jyo]

Good stuff. Looking fwd to hearing how this goes.
View attachment 49770

:lol:

 

[winkle]

Yeah, really helpful bloke.
mmm tamarinds...should be a nice tart finish.

Yeah and a bit sour, but they are going in a "oud bruin" sort of thing :icon_cheers:

 

[Spoonta]

cant wait to try it

 

[keifer33]

Awesome work jyo. I will reap the rewards of your initiative and reasearch im my attempt.

 

[jyo]

cant wait to try it

Same as Nev, mate- only if they are crap :icon_cheers:

Awesome work jyo. I will reap the rewards of your initiative and reasearch im my attempt.

No worries, mate. I hope it works out.

 

[jyo]

Finally brewed this last night. I ended up using 300 gm of packet dates (next time I will not be a scrooge and buy fresh dates and pit them myself). Also I didn't realise until after that packet dates contain 0.5% oil. I doubt this small amount will affect head retention though.

About 2 litres of date juice @ 1035 before caramelisation-

Colour was amazing to start with. I only strained and sparged through paper towel (forgot to buy some cheese cloth) but the juice was crystal clear.




And after about 50 minutes of gentle simmer. I could have reduced it more but didn't want to push the love on my first go. The colour in the photo does not do it justice. This is a rich ruby red, amazing colour. And the taste- oh, man....this would go well on an icecream sundae. It has rich plum and obviously caramelised date flavours and aromas. There are some real similarities to the flavour when you caramelise wort... :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:



So far, so good. Starter ready to go, about to chuck the cube in the fridge to get down to 18 and will pitch tonight.
I am really down on my targets and only achieved 1076, but no biggie. It'll still be the biggest beer I have made.
I ended up using wy1762 so as to allow the aroma of the dates to come through -if they do-

If this turns out well (I have a feeling it will) I am going to try some dates in an ESB. Maybe increase the amount of dates to 500gm and keep the crystal grains low and rely on the date syrup...

Cheers.

 

[mikk]

Looks nice! I can almost smell it, just by looking at the photos...

I've only made 2 belgian dark strongs, the first of which was really nice to start with, but now 6 months on it's REALLY nice. Quite raisony/pruney/plummy, but that didn't start coming through til recently. I think dates would complement a dark strong perfectly, as long as it wasn't massively prominent.

Good luck, i'm sure it'll be a winner.

 

[mikk]

Also, i meant to say that i would also be adding sugar. Dark candy sugar syrup really is an absolute must for a dark strong, for flavour, colour, & to make it more 'digestible' with a lower final gravity...

 

[jyo]

Also, i meant to say that i would also be adding sugar. Dark candy sugar syrup really is an absolute must for a dark strong, for flavour, colour, & to make it more 'digestible' with a lower final gravity...

Thanks, mikk. I don't have any, nor any extra cash to buy any atm, but may look at trying to make some myself if I get motivated. If I do get around to it, would you suggest adding at about day 3 or 4? Would table sugar suffice (not for flavour or colour, but to achieve the lower FG) ?

Cheers.

 

[mikk]

Making some is always an option. Cheap, too!

Yeah, wait til the ferment slows down a bit before adding the sugar. I've been told by people more knowledgeable than myself that it's good to not exceed the original SG of the wort without the sugar- ie- if the wort SG without sugar is 1.070 & you plan on adding .015 points worth of sugar, then best wait til the wort SG has fermented down to 1.055 (or lower) before adding the sugar.

Once you've tasted proper dark belgian candy sugar, you'll notice the flavour in most/all dark belgian beers. Personally, i reckon if you're not going to add dark candy sugar then i wouldn't add too much plain sugar. Your dark strong is at the lower end of what's considered a dark strong & kinda dubbel-like. For me, it should be all about the malt & flavour, & i wouldn't want too much alcohol warmth in it. just a bit of sugar to make it more drinkable.

Like i said though, i've only made 2 dark strongs so don't take all my advice as accepted wisdom. I HAVE, however, drunk a lot of Belgian beer to know what i like the taste of!

 

[jyo]

Making some is always an option. Cheap, too!

Yeah, wait til the ferment slows down a bit before adding the sugar. I've been told by people more knowledgeable than myself that it's good to not exceed the original SG of the wort without the sugar- ie- if the wort SG without sugar is 1.070 & you plan on adding .015 points worth of sugar, then best wait til the wort SG has fermented down to 1.055 (or lower) before adding the sugar.

Once you've tasted proper dark belgian candy sugar, you'll notice the flavour in most/all dark belgian beers. Personally, i reckon if you're not going to add dark candy sugar then i wouldn't add too much plain sugar. Your dark strong is at the lower end of what's considered a dark strong & kinda dubbel-like. For me, it should be all about the malt & flavour, & i wouldn't want too much alcohol warmth in it. just a bit of sugar to make it more drinkable.

Like i said though, i've only made 2 dark strongs so don't take all my advice as accepted wisdom. I HAVE, however, drunk a lot of Belgian beer to know what i like the taste of!

Cheers for the advice, mikk. I know, I'm spewing about the efficiency, it's taken it right to the lower end of the BDS guidelines...
Unfortunately I think I'll skip the dark candy sugar now (just read it can take hours to get the right colour!) and just boil up about 500 gm of cane sugar (too much?) and add that when the gravity drops as you suggested.
Cheers.

 

[stl]

Unfortunately I think I'll skip the dark candy sugar now (just read it can take hours to get the right colour!) and just boil up about 500 gm of cane sugar (too much?) and add that when the gravity drops as you suggested.

Hmm, won't you have gotten a similar thing out of the dates as you would have with dark candy sugar? It is mostly sugar after all, and you've caramelised it the same way... I'd be hesitant to add much more sugar (if any at all), but I'm no expert in these matters...

Looks tasty!