Beginner's Advice Please: Quick Ipa K&k Tips

[evil_as_skeletor]

Gents,

I posted this into a slow moving thread, but I thought I might create a new Topic so as to get an answer quicker.

I have never done a K&K/Toucan/Partial (only done AGs but with a new little family member around, I am looking for something quick and easy to stock my fridge up) and was wondering if I could get a few questions answered please.

1. I really want to do an IPA that is hopefully both really good and really hoppy (quick and similar to Mountain Goat IPA).

I have a small idea on which way I want to go, by researching this thread a bit and it goes a little something like this:

- Coopers Thomas Cooper IPA sludge.
- Light Malt Extract (something or other).
- Probably a brew enhancer (tips here please).
- I have plenty of crystal malt in a jar...
- Maybe some form of dextrose...
- A selection of English hops, something like fuggles, maybe galaxy, simcoe and more if you can suggest (I'd like it really hoppy, passionfruity and sharp but sweet).
- kit yeast or ale safale yeast
- Approx 23L volume

2. How is the best method to do this by introducing hops (pellets) at various stages, dry hopping, what quantities of hops?

3. Is this method or a toucan/partial more appropriate for a better quality (and quick) IPA? Is there a toucan/partial beginners guide somewhere?

4. Do I need to boil some grain or malt extract with a quantity of hops in some hot water prior to adding the IPA sludge into the fermenter?

5. What is the best yeast to use if I can "promise" to maintain <18ish degrees in a warm Adelaide spring...?

6. Do I need a secondary to introduce hops in a big tea bag of some form?

Looking forward to your thoughts and suggestions.

ERIN

 

[mkstalen]

I've never done an AG batch, only K&K, Extract and Partials

There's been a thread on Mountain Goat IPA clones here:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=41879

But as a starting point I'd probably do the following:
Coopers IPA Goop
1kg LDME
1kg Dex
200g Crystal Malt
10g Amarillo @ 10 minutes
10g Simcoe @ 10 minutes
10g Galaxy @ 10 minutes
10g Amarillo Dry hopped
10g Simcoe Dry hopped
20g Galaxy Dry hopped
US-05 @ 18 deg for 10 days (or there abouts)

Steep 200g of Crystal @ 70 deg for 30mins in 4L of water
Add in 400g of DME bring to the boil and do your hop additions
Disolve in the rest of the DME & Dex and chuck it into the fermenter with the goop ans top up to 23L

Just my 2c

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

I've never done an AG batch, only K&K, Extract and Partials

There's been a thread on Mountain Goat IPA clones here:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=41879

But as a starting point I'd probably do the following:
Coopers IPA Goop
1kg LDME
1kg Dex
200g Crystal Malt
10g Amarillo @ 10 minutes
10g Simcoe @ 10 minutes
10g Galaxy @ 10 minutes
10g Amarillo Dry hopped
10g Simcoe Dry hopped
20g Galaxy Dry hopped
US-05 @ 18 deg for 10 days (or there abouts)

Steep 200g of Crystal @ 70 deg for 30mins in 4L of water
Add in 400g of DME bring to the boil and do your hop additions
Disolve in the rest of the DME & Dex and chuck it into the fermenter with the goop ans top up to 23L

Just my 2c

You are a legend Stienberg.
This is a great response.
I will have a read later tonight, break it down and prepare to give it a try.
I might mess around with the hops in terms of quantity, but it looks pretty spot on.
Does the "@10 minutes" for each hop addition mean that I chuck em all in a tea bag together, or amaraillo for ten, remove, simcoe for ten, remove etc?
I am very appreciative of your time and detail.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Do you know if I can add this 'recipe' to Brewmate to check it all fits, and to save it for 'ron?

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

You are a legend Stienberg.
This is a great response.
I will have a read later tonight, break it down and prepare to give it a try.
I might mess around with the hops in terms of quantity, but it looks pretty spot on.
Does the "@10 minutes" for each hop addition mean that I chuck em all in a tea bag together, or amaraillo for ten, remove, simcoe for ten, remove etc?
I am very appreciative of your time and detail.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Do you know if I can add this 'recipe' to Brewmate to check it all fits, and to save it for 'ron?

Can someone also please tell me what I might do with a secondary fermenter?
I can fit it in the fridge to lager if that's correct?
Is that where my dry hops go?

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

Can someone also please tell me what I might do with a secondary fermenter?
I can fit it in the fridge to lager if that's correct?
Is that where my dry hops go?

I can't get a hold of Simcoe here in Adelaide.
What's a good replacement hop/hops (pellets)?
I was thinking Magnum and/or Citra...?

 

[krusty_oz]

I did this http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-guil...g/authentic-ipa
Dry hopped the fermenter after a couple days with about 20 grams of Cascade. Tasted great, was initially quite hoppy but balanced nicely after about a month in the bottle.

 

[enuun]

Always a winner.

1 can Coopers IPA
1kg DME
200g crystal steeped
10g Cascade / Nelson Sauvin 10mins
10g Cascade / Nelson Sauvin dry hopped day 0
10g Cascade / 5g Nelson Sauvin dry hopped day 3

I mentioned NS because it is my current favourite hop. Normally I go with cascade to do an IPA ala Anderson Valley Hop Ottin IPA

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

Always a winner.

1 can Coopers IPA
1kg DME
200g crystal steeped
10g Cascade / Nelson Sauvin 10mins
10g Cascade / Nelson Sauvin dry hopped day 0
10g Cascade / 5g Nelson Sauvin dry hopped day 3

I mentioned NS because it is my current favourite hop. Normally I go with cascade to do an IPA ala Anderson Valley Hop Ottin IPA

Thanks for the replies.

I like the variety in these recipes posted, it has made me want to be a bit adventurous with my hop additions/varieties.

I have two follow up questions that have been bugging me since starting this hobby:

1. When adding 'new' hops in various stages, should you remove the previous hop addition, if per se it is in a bag? Furthermore, using the example of the 'day 0' and 'day 3' dry hopping, would you remove the day 0 hop prior to day 3, or just whack it on top?

2. Secondly, should dry hopping be done only in a secondary and away from heavy yeast trub of the primary, or is it ok to add hop pellets to the primary (or secondary for that matter) as they are, not in a bag/sock?

I managed to get galaxy flowers but the other hops (Magnum, Citra and Amarillo) were only available in pellet form. Was this a bad move?

 

[yum beer]

Thanks for the replies.

I like the variety in these recipes posted, it has made me want to be a bit adventurous with my hop additions/varieties.

I have two follow up questions that have been bugging me since starting this hobby:

1. When adding 'new' hops in various stages, should you remove the previous hop addition, if per se it is in a bag? Furthermore, using the example of the 'day 0' and 'day 3' dry hopping, would you remove the day 0 hop prior to day 3, or just whack it on top?

2. Secondly, should dry hopping be done only in a secondary and away from heavy yeast trub of the primary, or is it ok to add hop pellets to the primary (or secondary for that matter) as they are, not in a bag/sock?

I managed to get galaxy flowers but the other hops (Magnum, Citra and Amarillo) were only available in pellet form. Was this a bad move?

1. Hops remain in the boil as you go, just add each new hop....if its all at 10min, add them all together. same with dry hopping.

2. Dry hop into your primary fermenter. Hops are then removed/left behind when you rack to secondary.

If you can get flowers they are preferred, but you wont always get every hop in flowers. pellets work fine.

I believe most people allow about an extra 10% weight if using flowers

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

1. Hops remain in the boil as you go, just add each new hop....if its all at 10min, add them all together. same with dry hopping.

2. Dry hop into your primary fermenter. Hops are then removed/left behind when you rack to secondary.

If you can get flowers they are preferred, but you wont always get every hop in flowers. pellets work fine.

I believe most people allow about an extra 10% weight if using flowers

Thanks very much, as I did not know that about flowers.

Is siphoning or gravity filling ok to move to secondary?
And is this stage required to be 'refrigerated'?

Is there a specific order the hops should go in?
I want to bitter with Amarillo then add the others.
What is the best order and how do I use AA and characteristics to choose my hop bill and order?

 

[DU99]

Could get yourself a copy of this spreadsheet iam using version 4..helps me alot

 

[Samuel Adams]

I personally don't bother with a secondary or racking and I don't crash chill either and my beers turn out pretty clear.
Up to you whether you want to do these steps.

With hops you can do whatever you like really, I just use trial and error. Found out I like amarillo early in the boil but don't like cascade early.
I just did a coopers IPA kit and used simcoe, chinook, amarillo & cascade (about 80g all up) early tasting are very promising....yum !
I'm using pellets and they work fine for me, I plan on trying some flowers at some stage though.

 

[jurule]

Lots and lots of questions for someone who has only ever done all grain brews???
I'm presuming you have used hops when boiling your AG brews?

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

Lots and lots of questions for someone who has only ever done all grain brews???
I'm presuming you have used hops when boiling your AG brews?

I've only done two of the same recipe.
I liked my results, but I was just following a recipe and didn't really learn much - or at least what the hop additions did (which were Tenttnanger and Hallertau).
I'm only green when it comes to this, so I appreciate the feedback...

I also have only had a single fermenter but I am getting another from a mate to either use as a second batch or for a secondary.

Oh, and I have never dry hopped before.

I can go on with justifications for my (what seem to me to be valid) questions....

Also, thank YUM BEER, SAMUEL ADAMS, DU99, ENUUN, KRUSTY OZ.

 

[jurule]

Sure all valid questions just think it is strange you started off AG yet dont seem to know the basics yet. Anywhoo you will get all the answers you need here.

 

[mkstalen]

Thanks very much, as I did not know that about flowers.

Is siphoning or gravity filling ok to move to secondary?
And is this stage required to be 'refrigerated'?

Is there a specific order the hops should go in?
I want to bitter with Amarillo then add the others.
What is the best order and how do I use AA and characteristics to choose my hop bill and order?

I rack to 2ndary in order to get the brew into a cube which will fit in my keg fridge, and I gravity fill from primary to 2ndary.
Requirement to refridgerate, depends on why you're putting it into a 2ndary vessel. A lot of people do some fermentation in the 2ndary, but I only use the 2ndary for crash chilling in order to drop most of the yeast out of suspension giving me a clearer final product.

Order of the hops - Remember your tin of goop is pre bittered, so you probably don't want to extract too much more in terms of bitterness from the hops. If you want to add bitterness then hop additions at 60 minutes is what you're after. Whilst you can use Amarillo for bittering it's more often used for it flavour or aroma.
If you can't get Simco try Cascade, or Citra (but I'm not real familliar with Citra).

The AA% tell you what the bittering factor of the hop is, the higher the AA the more bitter the hop, the longer you boil the hop the more bitterness you extract.
There's a good picture around somewhere which shows the correlation between boil time of hops and timing additions for bittering, flavour and aroma.
But as a rough guide bitter hops go in at 60 minutes, flavour at about 15, and aroma at 5 or dry.
So you add the particular amount at the particular time to get what you want.
ie. If you want a sweet, hoppy beer you'd have less bittering additions and more flavour/aroma additions.
If you want a bitter not-so-hoppy beer, then more bittering and less flavour/aroma.

Hope this helps.

 

[evil_as_skeletor]

I rack to 2ndary in order to get the brew into a cube which will fit in my keg fridge, and I gravity fill from primary to 2ndary.
Requirement to refridgerate, depends on why you're putting it into a 2ndary vessel. A lot of people do some fermentation in the 2ndary, but I only use the 2ndary for crash chilling in order to drop most of the yeast out of suspension giving me a clearer final product.

Order of the hops - Remember your tin of goop is pre bittered, so you probably don't want to extract too much more in terms of bitterness from the hops. If you want to add bitterness then hop additions at 60 minutes is what you're after. Whilst you can use Amarillo for bittering it's more often used for it flavour or aroma.
If you can't get Simco try Cascade, or Citra (but I'm not real familliar with Citra).

The AA% tell you what the bittering factor of the hop is, the higher the AA the more bitter the hop, the longer you boil the hop the more bitterness you extract.
There's a good picture around somewhere which shows the correlation between boil time of hops and timing additions for bittering, flavour and aroma.
But as a rough guide bitter hops go in at 60 minutes, flavour at about 15, and aroma at 5 or dry.
So you add the particular amount at the particular time to get what you want.
ie. If you want a sweet, hoppy beer you'd have less bittering additions and more flavour/aroma additions.
If you want a bitter not-so-hoppy beer, then more bittering and less flavour/aroma.

Hope this helps.

Wow, that's very clear and answers just about everything, thank you again Stienberg.