Beginner To Brewing

[Ralphi]

Hi there,

Just before i get started I hope this is posted in the right section, if not someone can move it.


So the basic story is i'm a uni student and i'm looking at getting into the homebrewing scene in the hope of cheap(ish) beer, to make some ginger beer/lemonade and just out of interest, that said I don't have a lot of cash to throw at this hobby. After reading some pages on the internet I've gathered that the cooper's home brew kit seems to be a solid choice for a beginner. As well as this i'm hoping to scrounge a bottle capper (bench mount) from my grandpa. Before I go any further I have some questions that I'm hoping you can help me out with.


Would it be fine to recap bottles such as VB and Carlton draught stubbies?
(I say this because my friends drink a lot of VB/Carlton so I could easily get the bottles but I hear people recommending import bottles?)

How much sediment would you expect to see in a stubby with an average kit and kilo brew?
(My friend tells me that most brewers use longnecks because there is so much sediment in a stubby it's barely worth it)

I can see that in my local supermarket it costs about $13 for a kit and $4 or so for cooper's brewing sugar. For better tasting beer everything I've read says avoid cooper's brewing sugar and use some better gear from the HBS, How much would I expect to pay for a kilo of better sugar and yeast?

What sort of equipment would I have to look at getting before I could start doing AG? (assuming I ever get that far)

Hypothetically speaking would it be possible to use the cooper's fermenter to make spirits?

Is there anything else I should know before getting into home brewing?

Hope you can help me here, I've tried to read as much as I can but you can only read so much.
Ralphi

 

[phinnsfotos]

Hi there and welcome to one of the best hobbies around.

I'm only new myself but here's some of my opinions.

Lots of questions. I'll answer some of them inline.

Hi there,

Just before i get started I hope this is posted in the right section, if not someone can move it.


So the basic story is i'm a uni student and i'm looking at getting into the homebrewing scene in the hope of cheap(ish) beer, to make some ginger beer/lemonade and just out of interest, that said I don't have a lot of cash to throw at this hobby. After reading some pages on the internet I've gathered that the cooper's home brew kit seems to be a solid choice for a beginner. As well as this i'm hoping to scrounge a bottle capper (bench mount) from my grandpa. Before I go any further I have some questions that I'm hoping you can help me out with.


Would it be fine to recap bottles such as VB and Carlton draught stubbies?
(I say this because my friends drink a lot of VB/Carlton so I could easily get the bottles but I hear people recommending import bottles?)

You do know that the Coopers kit comes with enough plastic bottles (740ml) to do one brew? A lot of people give plastic bottles a hard time. I use both and I've never had a problem with plastics. There's lots of information here about the pros and cons of plastic, but I think plastic is fine for almost all brew types.

I can't comment specifically on VB and Carlton bottles (I have a beer snob mate who keeps me in nice heavy brown bottles), but I'm sure the VB and Carlton bottles are fine. Try to use dark brown to stop the beer from becoming "light struck", or skunking (search it up).

How much sediment would you expect to see in a stubby with an average kit and kilo brew?
(My friend tells me that most brewers use longnecks because there is so much sediment in a stubby it's barely worth it)

I've never heard that theory. I'd say the amount of sediment is less than 1% of the volume of the beer for an average homebrew. If you bother to throw some finings (gelatin) in it will be even less than that. Yeast is chock full of vitamin B, good for hangovers anyway.

I can see that in my local supermarket it costs about $13 for a kit and $4 or so for cooper's brewing sugar. For better tasting beer everything I've read says avoid cooper's brewing sugar and use some better gear from the HBS, How much would I expect to pay for a kilo of better sugar and yeast?

Honestly the best advice I ever got while starting was to not get too complicated too soon. Just get used to brewing a couple of the Coopers kits with the Coopers Brew Sugars. Absolutely you can do better than Coopers but it's pretty good, and it's simple, so it gives you a chance to get used to and comfortable with the process of brewing. Just don't get fixated on perfection straight away, your first few beers might be a bit average, but that's okay, you're learning a new hobby. With a bit of patience you'll be brewing beers you really enjoy quickly enough.

There's a lot of baby steps that you take and you can stop where ever you're comfortable. Some people stay just with Super Market Kits and Kilos. My mate who got me brewing has gone from K&K (Kit and Kilo) through to full extract and he's settled back on just straight K&K. That's what he likes, he does it well, and every time I have one of his beers I'm reminded of how just doing something simple, well, can deliver quit pleasant results.

Coopers Pale with Brew Enhancer 2 is a pretty drinkable drop IMHO

What sort of equipment would I have to look at getting before I could start doing AG? (assuming I ever get that far)

No idea. Check out Brew in a bag BIAB for cheap, simple ways to get into AG.

Hypothetically speaking would it be possible to use the cooper's fermenter to make spirits?

No idea, sorry. Check the law in your local area about spirits.

Is there anything else I should know before getting into home brewing?

Sanitise, sanitise, sanitise! I believe that Coopers Home Brew Kits DONT come with a sanitiser any more and have some throw away line about using bleach. You certainly can use bleach as a sanitiser but it can be complicated and if you don't wash it off you can easily screw up a beer. If you were going to invest some money (I'm talking $20) in homebrew a nice bottle of StarSan would be an excellent investment. You don't need to rinse it off, it's actually good for your yeast, and a 500ml bottle with last for at least 20-30 brews, and probably more. After sanitiser:

Temperature, temperature, temperature! With MOST of the coopers kits try to keep the temp at 20 degrees. During summer a laundry sink full off water and rotating frozen water bottles will do the trick nicely.

Hope you can help me here, I've tried to read as much as I can but you can only read so much.
Ralphi

Just remember "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Home Brew". You will screw some things up, you will make a giant tub of vinegar (or worse) at some point. Most of us have. If something screws up just learn from it and move on.

Cheers,
Finn.

 

[kelbygreen]

ok I use use tooheys new and vb bottles with not problems yet (unless you drop them in a concrete sink) lol.

The sediment wont be worse as its a smaller bottle so less sediment you wont get the same amount of sediment in a 365ml bottle as a 750ml one you will get half. But as for storing, cleaning, priming and bottling its easier to have 750ml bottles.

Some people use just dry malt extract (seen it at big W a coopers brand) didnt see the price, I pay about $9.50 for 1kg malt extract and $3.50 for 1kg of dextrose. I dont mind drier beers so mix them both (up to the brewer what amount)

dont worry about AG yet you got kit and killo, extract and partial brewing befor you get into AG lol

for spirits No you need a still and from what a guy said making it he uses his pool to liquid cool it and my mum looked at a setup was about $350 to start lol

only thing to know is read the forum and articles top right of the screen

 

[Ralphi]

Wow thanks so much for your time in answering my questions.

I realise that the plastic bottles come with the kit but i'm looking for what i'll do after that and I don't really want to have to be buying bottles all the time. Also I don't really fancy drinking out of plastic. If someone could comment specifically or recommend which bottles to use that would be great.

Found this very helpful on the AG topic, http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showtopic=38674.

 

[chappo1970]

Would it be fine to recap bottles such as VB and Carlton draught stubbies?
(I say this because my friends drink a lot of VB/Carlton so I could easily get the bottles but I hear people recommending import bottles?)

It will be fine BUT stubbies are a PITA to clean, sanitise and fill. Twice the work of tallies. One big tip is clean and sanitise everything and don't short cut this ever. Remember that everything likes beer.

How much sediment would you expect to see in a stubby with an average kit and kilo brew?
(My friend tells me that most brewers use longnecks because there is so much sediment in a stubby it's barely worth it)

Not true but you will get some sediment. The amount of sediment is purely governed by the yeast you use and the beer you are brewing. Crash chilling and fining (adding gelatine) will help clear your beers better and cause a fair majority of the yeast to drop out of suspension. Use your fine googlefu skills to search these techniques extensively cover on this forum.

I can see that in my local supermarket it costs about $13 for a kit and $4 or so for cooper's brewing sugar. For better tasting beer everything I've read says avoid cooper's brewing sugar and use some better gear from the HBS, How much would I expect to pay for a kilo of better sugar and yeast?

I suggest you use Brew Enhancer 2 (BE2 Coopers) for your first brew rather than plain old brewing sugars that they like to hock. The BE2 has maltose and will give better head retention and a much better mouth feel. Not sure of your local market but $5-6 per kg was the going rate.

What sort of equipment would I have to look at getting before I could start doing AG? (assuming I ever get that far)

Well that's another big story. You have litterally a plethora of ways to AG. BIAB, 3 tier, 2 tier, Single tier, HERMS, RIMS and on and on. As previously suggested would be best to get your first few brews under your belt before starting down that slippery slope. Also kits give you a really good grounding for the step to AG.

Hypothetically speaking would it be possible to use the cooper's fermenter to make spirits?

Hypothetically yes to make a wash but not to distill pure water. Stilling is a no no and not to be mentioned on this forum as it is illegal within Australia. <_<

Is there anything else I should know before getting into home brewing?

Clean and sanitise everything. Get a good no rinse sanitiser like Starsan. Use it often and use it liberally. Get online and read "How to brew" by John Palmer, it's a great resource for beginners to advanced brewers. Collect your gear as you go. Start simple and built it up, it half the fun. Also buy the best gear you can as is this hobby most of the gear will last you a life time.

Good luck with it Ralphi

Chap Chap

Edit BTW Welcome to AHB

 

[Hatchy]

I don't know a great deal about brewing but I know how to collect bottles. Every party you go to, look around for crown seal bottles. Take them home with you. If yr having a party make it a "bring coopers longnecks" party. If yr brewing ginger beer then it's probably ok in plastic, mine don't get super gassy. If yr buying commercial beer make sure they're crown seals. You can bottle in twist tops, you just have to accept that at some point you'll cut yr lip on a bottle. If you know girls that drink champagne you can use those bottles if you've got the right capper and caps. If that's too much work then there's kegs.

Like the other blokes said, keep it simple for now, make sure yr sanitation and temperature control are right and you'll get ok beer.

Apologies for any typos, my laptop died so I'm posting on my phone

 

[Ralphi]

Thanks for all the advice.

It will be fine BUT stubbies are a PITA to clean, sanitise and fill. Twice the work of tallies. One big tip is clean and sanitise everything and don't short cut this ever. Remember that everything likes beer.
I'll look into getting a source of "tallies" but I'm thinking even though there's more work the stubbies will be more viable for me


Not true but you will get some sediment. The amount of sediment is purely governed by the yeast you use and the beer you are brewing. Crash chilling and fining (adding gelatine) will help clear your beers better and cause a fair majority of the yeast to drop out of suspension. Use your fine googlefu skills to search these techniques extensively cover on this forum.
So does the quality of the yeast have any effect? Is it as simple as buying some gelatine and chucking it into the fermenter?

Well that's another big story. You have litterally a plethora of ways to AG. BIAB, 3 tier, 2 tier, Single tier, HERMS, RIMS and on and on. As previously suggested would be best to get your first few brews under your belt before starting down that slippery slope. Also kits give you a really good grounding for the step to AG.
Yeah I think I might wait a while before I look at AG

Hypothetically yes to make a wash but not to distill pure water. Stilling is a no no and not to be mentioned on this forum as it is illegal within Australia.
No problems, won't mention stilling again.


I haven't even started and so far this site has been a great resource, can't wait to get into it

 

[Ralphi]

I don't know a great deal about brewing but I know how to collect bottles. Every party you go to, look around for crown seal bottles. Take them home with you. If yr having a party make it a "bring coopers longnecks" party. If yr brewing ginger beer then it's probably ok in plastic, mine don't get super gassy. If yr buying commercial beer make sure they're crown seals. You can bottle in twist tops, you just have to accept that at some point you'll cut yr lip on a bottle. If you know girls that drink champagne you can use those bottles if you've got the right capper and caps. If that's too much work then there's kegs.

Like the other blokes said, keep it simple for now, make sure yr sanitation and temperature control are right and you'll get ok beer.

Apologies for any typos, my laptop died so I'm posting on my phone

By "cut yr lip on a bottle" are you saying that if you crown seal a screw top bottle it'll smash the neck a bit or something?

 

[Hatchy]

By "cut yr lip on a bottle" are you saying that if you crown seal a screw top bottle it'll smash the neck a bit or something?

When I was using twist tops I chipped some glass off most of them. I never cut myself on them but I don't use twist tops any more

 

[Ralphi]

When I was using twist tops I chipped some glass off most of them. I never cut myself on them but I don't use twist tops any more

Can you recap them as screw tops?

 

[manticle]

Phinnsphotos seems to have most of what you asked covered and covered quite well.

In regards to AG - it's a great thing and I recommend it but I also recommend simplicity and learning about fermentation. A lot of people seem to go for AG before having any idea about very simple brewing practice and process. Better to do kit and kilo and nail it first in my opinion. Don't let my opinion stop you of course - just learn the basics of whatever you do and learn them well.

Nick's thread offer a great simple guide on how to brew AG with minimum equipment and minimum financial outlay so there are certainly worse places to atsrt than there.

As for spirits - I doubt your fermenter will be of any use whatsoever. You can buy stills for anything other than making spirits (eg essential oils) as distilling in AU is highly illegal and illegal things are generally not discussed here. I don't think your fermenter is a major part of your future essential oil production line. That said I haven't made any so it may play a minor role. Best ask the manufacturers of the stills.

 

[chappo1970]

I'll look into getting a source of "tallies" but I'm thinking even though there's more work the stubbies will be more viable for me

If you must use stubbies twist tops are ok but if you can get crown seals this will be better. One of the problems with the megaswill stubbies is that the actual glass seems to be thin and fragile. When capping them be sure to wear think leather gloves please. In the early days I had a few break (after a few brews) and thankfully I was wearing gloves.

So does the quality of the yeast have any effect? Is it as simple as buying some gelatine and chucking it into the fermenter?

Not so much the quality but the strain of yeast. I simply add 2 teaspoons to a cup of boiling water, stir till disolved and whack it in the fermenter. Then crash chill. As has been said before accurate temperature control of the ferment is critical for a great beer regardless if it is kits, kits and bits, partial, extract or AG. By treating your yeasties well they will reward you with equally good beer.

Yeah I think I might wait a while before I look at AG

Yep good idea. As I said earlier brewing is an acquired knowledge over time. There are just somethings you need to learn on your feet and kits are a great grounding for that. If after a few brews you thirst for more beery adventure then progress further into the brewing world.

Cheers

Chap Chap
[/quote]

 

[booyablack]

Hey Ralphi, just thought I'd weigh in on the bottle debate.

I use a combination of stubbies and long-necks when I bottle, usually about 12 long-necks and 35 or so stubbies. I also have both screw tops and crown seals. I deliberately use more stubbies than long-necks because I find them so much more manageable. Yes, you do have to clean and sanitise more bottles but it's not that much more effort and when you're green and keen it's still more exciting than a chore. Stubbies are better for me generally because they're easier to fit into crowded fridges, easier to take a few stubbies to a mate's place, you have the option of just having one beer if you want AND you look less bogan drinking stubbies than long-necks!

Also, in my experience I've found that the screw tops seal just as well as the crown seals. I've certainly never had the capper chip any of my bottles either! I would buy a new capper if this happened.

Another point you may be interested in is about homebrew starter kits. One weekend I got fired up to start homebrewing and went to K-Mart with the intention of buying a Coopers Starter Kit. When I got there I noticed they had Coopers kits for ~$85 and Brigalow kits for $65. Being a tight-arse I naturally went for the Brigalow kit and I'm glad I did.

In any starter kit you're pretty much getting a fermenter with all required accessories (O-ring, grommet, tap, air-lock etc.) plus a can of goop. I found the Brigalow kit to be pretty good because I didn't want to pay for the plastic bottles you get with the Coopers kit because I wasn't going to use them anyway. Also, you get a couple of things in the Brigalow kit that you don't get with the Coopers such as a hydrometer and some Sodium Met (sanitiser). The last thing that people will debate about is that you get a Coopers can as opposed to a Brigalow can. I've found Brigalow to be much maligned but having only ever made the Brigalow Lager because it came with my kit I'd have to say that for a first brew it turned out quite well.


Sorry for the long post but here's the summary:

• Use any bottles you want (although it's better to get brown ones)
• Coopers starter kits are fine but the cheaper options aren't necessarily any worse

Happy brewing!

PS - Where are you located?

 

[phinnsfotos]

Hey Ralphi,

Wow thanks so much for your time in answering my questions.

I realise that the plastic bottles come with the kit but i'm looking for what i'll do after that and I don't really want to have to be buying bottles all the time. Also I don't really fancy drinking out of plastic. If someone could comment specifically or recommend which bottles to use that would be great.

Just to make sure, you do know the plastic bottles and caps are reusable. You don't need to buy more each time. I've got about 17 brews under the belt and four sets of bottles and haven't had a single problem. I even screwed up my priming (carbonation) of my lemonade and added double the sugar I should have and didn't have a single bottle fail.

I don't want to twist your arm on this but for a new brewer the plastic bottles can be a bit more simple. Here's some pros and cons (I'll try and be objective but I do mostly bottle in plastic).

Plastic - Pros:

• Less chance of bottle bombs, nigh on impossible has been my experience.
• Easy to get more of ($25 for a full set of 30)
• Drop'able
• You can sneak a nice heavy stout into an "event" if you bottle in a coke bottle and look after the labels.

Plastic - Cons:

• Ugly, daggy etc
• I don't know anyone who drinks straight out of them by choice (yes I"ve done it. I was in the garage and feeling REALLY lazy)
• People say that you can't store/condition beer for more than 6 months. Coopers say their brand have nylon mixed into the plastic so they will last for 12 months. I can't say anything for sure but I do know my stout is 8 months old and there's no difference between the glass and the plastic
• People say eventually the seals in the caps will wear out. I haven't had this happen and I have to imagine that some of my bottles have had 6 brews through them. Regardless it's $3 for 15 more caps. The bottles don't ever seem to wear out.

Glass - Pros:

• Far nicer to drink out of
• Will condition beers for a very long time. Indefinitely I imagine, but the beer itself may not be up to it.

Glass - Cons:

• Well I guess they are drop'able, but you'll be sad after you do.
• If you don't ferment out properly or don't prime properly you could end up with bottle bombs
• Can be harder to find a supply of, but once you're set, you're set
• Chip'able, breakable while capping.

There's lots more for all of those lists, but that's a few of the top of my head. Now you can definitely use glass and NEVER have any of the problems I mentioned. But like I said. Plastic is probably just a bit easier to start with.

Also, you get a couple of things in the Brigalow kit that you don't get with the Coopers such as a hydrometer and some Sodium Met (sanitiser).

Just to clear that up. Coopers kits DO come with a hydrometer, but they DO NOT come with a sanitiser.

Cheers,
Finn.

 

[phinnsfotos]

Some good articles

Choice of Bottles:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...;showarticle=28
I think this article is a little harsh on plastic, but it's good enough.

Fining with Gelatin:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...;showarticle=52

 

[booyablack]

Just to clear that up. Coopers kits DO come with a hydrometer, but they DO NOT come with a sanitiser.

Yeah my bad on that one. At the time when I bought the kit I thought that the Coopers kit didn't have a hydrometer but I see now that they do. I still bought another hydrometer anyway because the one with the Brigalow kit didn't go above 1040. I had to guess that my second brew was about 1044 OG!

So I'll change hydrometer in that sentence to finings. Not that this really matters since you can use household gelatine for finings anyway but still it doesn't hurt that they threw them in. I know I used the included packet in my first brew and it came out crystal clear.

Even though I bottle in glass, I do have a pro to add to your plastic pros Phinn.

• Easier to cap. (i.e. you don't need any sort of capper to cap plastic bottles, they just screw on. Bench cappers are best for glass bottles and they cost around $55.)

Haha, I like the stout in a Coke bottle idea too! Nice one.


Booyablack

 

[Florian]

Hey Ralphi

If you haven't bought your coopers kit yet, hold on and have a look at kmart. They are clearing their Brigalow kits for only $36 instead of the $85 to $90 for a coopers kit. The only thing they're missing is a long spoon and a stick on thermometer, but you can easily get that yourself for a few $$. And you might want to put the k&k aside and get one from coopers or others.

Someone above mentioned that the Brigalow hydrometer didn't really work how it should. Can't comment on that yet, as I still have to put my first brew down.

The Brigalow kit doesn't come with bottles, but if you wanna use glass anyway (like me) that's fine. It contains a set of screw tops though, so you can still use some old lemonade/soda water bottles if you don't get enough glass collected in time.

hope that helps.

Florian