Beer Wont Carb

[EVOSTi]

i'm upto about my 4th keg and have been mostly happy with the result up until the current keg.

bit of background first: my first keg was good but had way too much head so i lengthened the beer line to two meters. next couple of kegs were better, still probably too much head but if you let it sit for a minute its ok. still not perfect so i was planning to go to 3m of line and see how that is.

the way ive been gassing is to put the pressure up to say 300kpa over night, then down to 100kpa for a few days and its sweet. this current keg however (think it was a morgans pilsner maybe? can check when im home) has been on the gas for weeks and still tastes flat.
there is plenty of gas in the tank, there is lots of head but its like its not absorbing the gas. i can see some bubbles in the beer but its no good. ive even tried bumping to 120kpa but still no love.

its got a good flavour to it and i know it will be good when carbed, does anyone have an ideas? i know the topic has probably been covered to death but i couldnt find a thread on the topic that relates specifically.

cheers,
kevin

 

[Supra-Jim]

Dirty glasses? i.e. if your glasses still have thin film of soap residue on the inside this will make the beer seem flat, you'll get a head, but no nice bubbles in the glass.

Some amount of surface roughness is required for bubbles to form (hence the scoring/etching pattern on the bottom of headmaster glasses!).

Cheers

SJ

 

[EVOSTi]

ive tried various glasses including proper schooner glasses from the pub with no success, and they are cleaned in the dishwasher like ive always done.
its just like the beer isnt absorbing the gas. theres definately no leaks as the gas has been on for weeks and hasnt gone down a bit.

 

[quantocks]

what temp is the beer currently at?

I'd just stick with the 'set and forget' method, set the pouring pressure and leave it for a week or two and it'll be good as gold!

otherwise the way I quickly carb a beer is lay the keg on its side and roll back and forth with the gas at 300kPA for 55 seconds, then set to pouring pressire. Even if a little undercarbed it will clear up in a few days and become perfect

 

[buttersd70]

So it pours with plenty of head, but there are no bubbles in the beer itself (or just a few)?

Sounds like it's over carbed, not under. If it was undercarbed, it would pour with no head. When it's overcarbed, the CO2 all gets knocked out of solution and goes into the head instead of having constant bubbles rising through the beer. This would also account for having to continually extend the line.

Check the temperature of the beer and the required carbonation against crozdogs chart here (at the bottom)
Then balance the line to suit the pressure. If it pours heady once you've done that, turn off the gas and vent the excess pressure as per the instructions atr the bottom of that article.

 

[.DJ.]

yep, over carbed..

release the pressure, then pour... Still too much head? Leave it for 24rs and repeat until you get perfect beer...

 

[kabooby]

Yeh, sounds like it's over carbed and you are losing all of the C02 out of the beer when it hits the glass. Try backing of the pressure for a couple of serves and see how it goes.

Kabooby

 

[EVOSTi]

thanks for all of the replies guys

so it seems the consensus is its overcarbed. i will certainly try and release some pressure over the next few days and see how i go. i dont want to shake the keg because i lagered in the keg for 4 weeks and its crystal clear, dont want to spoil it.
im unsure of the temp of the fridge, at a guess id say 4 degrees but dont have measurements. i have carbed the others to 100kpa and served at that pressure but maybe ill try a little less this tiem and see how it is.

 

[buttersd70]

If your at 4C, 100kpa equates to 2.8vol...pretty gasssy. 80 would be closer to the mark...2.5vol.

 

[crundle]

If your at 4C, 100kpa equates to 2.8vol...pretty gasssy. 80 would be closer to the mark...2.5vol.

+1

After force carbing at 300kpa, set the regulator to 80kpa and you will have a nicely carbonated beer.

As for the force carbing, DJ 1984 sorted me with advice to force carb the cold keg for 40 seconds at 300 kpa while shaking the keg - has worked a treat every time for me since.

Crundle

 

[EVOSTi]

i might have to get a thermometer for the fridge so i can know for sure.

i prefer not to shake the kegs as i dont rack to a secondary, just lager in the keg with gelatine. dont mind waiting a week for them to gas as i have to wait a few weeks to ferment then a few more to lager anyway

ive turned of the gas and opened the relief valve a few times, ill check on it tonight see how much its dropped and hopefully my beer no longer is flat. im trying to be optimistic but the last few kegs were ok at 100kpa so im a little worried.

 

[crundle]

Turn your pressure down to 80 kpa as serving pressure, and gas your kegs at that pressure, and you will be fine, it may take a week or more to get to the right carbonation. If your kegs are pressurised at 100kpa, it will take a few burps to get it down to the right pressure. I have found that if the gas is turned off, and the keg is burped once or twice till there is no more gas coming out of the relief valve, you should be right after pouring a couple of beers to test.

If you are gassing up your kegs at 80kpa and at 4 degrees Celcius, then it is a matter of adjusting the beer line length to get the pour correct, remembering that you can always cut off more line, but can't make it longer! As stated earlier, refer to Crozdog's excellent chart to work out how long the beer line should be for the level of carbonation you are after.

There is no need to shake the keg as you are not interested in force carbonation.

Crundle

 

[EVOSTi]

sorry to dig up my old thread, but im still having issues

i will look at the beer length chart when i get home but in the mean time ill just explain what ive done.

i backed the pressure off to 80kpa, still pooring all head and tasting flat. i have about 2m of beer line, and previous kegs were great, nothing changed.

i spoke to my local HBS shop in campbelltown, one of his suggestions was that the beer hadnt finished fermenting. however i wasnt inspired with confidence as he didnt seem too clued up on keg systems. when i suggested beer length he said it was irrelivant.

is there anything i can do to save the beer? i have another keg almost ready to put on the gas, just seems a shame to waste this one as the flavour is good apart from being beer cordial.

 

[crundle]

When you say that you backed off the pressure on the regulator, have you burped the keg at all to remove the excess pressure that is in there?

Unplug the gas in post, and burp the keg till you hear no more gas venting, then let it sit for a few hours and try pouring again, if it is still head and no bubbles, then repeat the process. It sounds to me like the system is not in balance, and although the reg is set about right, the pressure inside the keg is still too high, so it has to be brought down to that of the regulator. If the gas in post is still connected and the gas on, then it will take ages to vent enough gas to get the balance right.

Hope this is of assistance,

Crundle

 

[zabond]

Is this the first time you've used this keg?I had one that the dip tube had a small fracture up near the out post and drew in gas as you poured a beer causing foaming,when you are pouring is there any visable bubbles in the beer line?if not maybe try taking a sample directly out of the top of the keg [after releasing pressure]give it a good shake to see if its over carbed[use a sanitised jar and lid]
Russ

 

[EVOSTi]

yeah i certainly got the gas down to the reg pressure. i disconnected the gas and burped it it several times over a couple of days, and its been sitting at 80kpa for a few weeks untouched, still no love.

i spose i should keep dropping the pressure and see how i go. the guy at the HBS said 10kpa was right (i asked if he mean psi but no) which seems very low but like i said i dont think hes all there.

 

[buttersd70]

lots of head, no bubbles = overcarbed.
no head, no bubbles = undercarbed
no head, bubbles= carb ok, line too long
lots of head, bubbles = carb ok, line too short.

Man, I think I should make that my signature...

anyway, as has been said, if you reduced the pressure, but didn't vent the excess carb enough, you're still going to have issues.....you shouldn't just burp it, you need to vent it entirely. The colder it is, the harder it will be for it to give up that excessive CO2.

 

[EVOSTi]

zabond, that is an interesting theory. i only have 2 kegs and have used each only a few times. i havent removed the dip tube for cleaning yet but i suspose its possible for it to crack. i guess i could sanitise something to take a sample.

 

[EVOSTi]

butters, would the pressure still drop on its own over time?

i burped it several times and its been sitting at 80 kpa for weeks. i realise this is probably old news for most people but for me its an issue its just wierd that i made the previous beer exactly the same except for the kit (same saflager, ferment temp and time etc) and the carbonation has changed.

 

[Ross]

......, would the pressure still drop on its own over time?

NO.

Open up the relief valve & leave the keg to warm up outside of the fridge over night. The warming beer will release CO2 much more rapidly.
Tomorrow, put the keg back in the fridge to cool - Once cool, close the relief valve, gas to 70kpa & pour - should be fine, but if still over gassed repeat as necessary.


cheers ross