Basics Of Making And Using A Yeast Starter

[slcmorro]

What Kingy said. Are you in a position to pitch what you have into a smaller volume, say 10-20L of cooled wort and then add the remainder of the wort 3-4 days into fermenting? Will obviously add some time onto the total turnaround, but you won't be underpitching by at least half again.

No chilling half of your batch would go a long way towards this. Oh and yes, there are people who swear against no-chilling Lagers citing DMS and all that, however I personally am of the opinion that if either A: your boil was vigorous enough, B: you boiled for a longer time (90 mins) or C: both of those things combined, you won't have any dramas. At least I haven't in the dozen or so lagers I've made in that way.

You can do as others have suggested and pitch warm, say around 16c and drop it by 2 degrees a day down to your desired ferment temp too.

Let us all know what you went with and good luck

 

[Nullnvoid]

I know this is probably a "how long is a piece of string" type question and why I can't find an answer but how do you determine high Krausen when you use a stir plate?

Edit spelzing.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Or alternatively if I have missed high krausen, is there a need to chill or can it still be just all combined with the wort?

I have just noticed my flask won't fit in the fridge . Must be time to remove all that pesky food!

 

[Rocker1986]

Probably depends how fast you are stirring it. I usually stir it fast enough to get a small vortex in the top, maybe an inch deep or so. Mine almost always have a noticeable krausen on them so it's reasonably easy to tell. It'd depend on yeast strain too I'd imagine. However, I use the crash and decant method of pitching because with my brewing methods it's just not worth the ******* around to account for the starter volume in the recipes themselves, so it's a bit of a moot point in my case anyway. I just crash my starters in my brew fridge, or even the keg fridge if there aren't 3 kegs in there.

Not sure about the second question, I imagine it would be ok to just pitch it as is though? :unsure:

 

[Nullnvoid]

Thanks Rocker1986. That's about the vortex I had. I guess what I had was krausen, I turned it off and left it a bit and it disappeared. So turned it back on

I pitched it last night anyway, and it's cranking along today, so must be all good!

 

[ChefKing]

Can this method be done with keeping some of your yeast cake from prior brews?

Like fill up a sanitised jam jar with yeast cake and follow your method with adding some wort with the yeast cake leftovers to another sanitised conical flask?


From what I have read, I add 100gms of LDME extract to 1ltr heated water, mix and add my yeast cake leftovers and I am on my way? Of course all equipment must be sanitised...

Does adding up to 2 ltrs of yeast starter effect the over brew ABV?

 

[dannymars]

Can this method be done with keeping some of your yeast cake from prior brews?

That would definitely work, apparently there is a limit to how many times you can do this due to genetic mutations that occur after a certain number of generations.

 

[Yob]

there are a few factors that affect all this.

Age of yeast, if you are going batch to batch, just take a mug of slurry and pitch it direct if temps are within ~5'c (10'c max).. of course this is just a rule of thumb and other factors like volume and gravity affect this.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html Mr Malty is a good resource for getting the 'feel' of how much you need. Spend some time with it.

A cleaner way, and a good way to understand how much healthy yeast you are pitching is to rinse the yeast prior to pitching, LINKY to Wolfy's rinsing thread, helped me no end in the beginning of my yeast days.

If its aged yeast youll want to build a starter and step it up, old yeast should have a gravity of no more that 1.020 for the initial step and then 1.040 for the second step.

You can let it ferment out and decant the liquid and then just pitch the yeast slurry, really depends on the beer you are putting in.

Its all both very simple and complex, what you need is an understanding of all the methods and the why one is chosen over the other... read read read...

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah there is although it's anyone's guess where that limit actually is. I wonder if when harvesting from starters, you can get more re-uses due to it always going through the same unhopped wort conditions, rather than being in all sorts of different worts like it is in the FV. I'm up to about 6 or 7 generations on a US-05 pack, almost the same on a Wy2001 pack that I bought over a year ago. Aside from experimenting with some English ale strains I haven't had to buy any yeast since about September last year. So far haven't noticed any weirdness in the beers fermented with these yeasts either, but when I do I'll figure that's about the limit and will make note of it.

 

[Yob]

That would definitely work, apparently there is a limit to how many times you can do this due to genetic mutations that occur after a certain number of generations.

not necessarily true, Ive seen a brewer on 128 repatches... (Commercial environment)

Its more of a cleanliness factor and what is deemed acceptable drift. Yes they will mutate (and adapt) and its really only necessary to reset once flavour drift gets to the point where you notice it going in a direction you don't want.. unless infected, it doesn't just drop off the cliff, its a slow curve.

 

[Killer Brew]

Yeah there is although it's anyone's guess where that limit actually is. I wonder if when harvesting from starters, you can get more re-uses due to it always going through the same unhopped wort conditions, rather than being in all sorts of different worts like it is in the FV. I'm up to about 6 or 7 generations on a US-05 pack, almost the same on a Wy2001 pack that I bought over a year ago. Aside from experimenting with some English ale strains I haven't had to buy any yeast since about September last year. So far haven't noticed any weirdness in the beers fermented with these yeasts either, but when I do I'll figure that's about the limit and will make note of it.

The IBD text books recommend 8 - 10 repitches max before creating a fresh starter from the source yeast. There are brewers that do more of course and I have spoken to one who uses fresh yeast for every batch.

 

[ChefKing]

Couple of quick questions:

1. Which level is the right one to decant, the middle?

1. How are you decanting to get the required level?

 

[danestead]

Couple of quick questions:

1. Which level is the right one to decant, the middle?

1. How are you decanting to get the required level?

I find decanting is easiest done after chilling the starter in the fridge. It helps to compact the yeast layer at the bottom so it is less disturbed when decanting.

Just decant the top clearish beer layer almost down to the quite solid yeast layer. I just leave enough beer on top of the yeast to help with swirling around to loosen the yeast layer and enable it to pour effectively. You don't need a whole lot of beer to help with that; I find about an equal or half amount compared to your yeast layer works.

You may read about 3 layers or whatever, but I've always pitched the whole solid layer at the bottom.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Whilst brewing today I ended up with more wort than I had anticipated or was able to fit in the cubes. So I put it into a glass jar to use for a starter. How long will this keep for and whats the best environment? Fridge, freezer?

 

[Mardoo]

Freezer. Re-boil unless you know the jar was sanitary. I re-boil anyway, just to be sure.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Freezer. Re-boil unless you know the jar was sanitary. I re-boil anyway, just to be sure.

Hahah in this house not likely! I would reboil it anyway I imagine. Thanks for the info I'll freeze it.

 

[Mardoo]

If you use sanitary bottles, i.e. either boiled, baked or pressure cooked, or fill them with 80C wort, they can be refrigerated instead.

Do remember the obvious problems with filling normal glass jars with hot liquids though! Getting showered with boiling liquids is no fun, says the boy who got showered with boiling water when he filled his fishbowl with boiling water to sanitise it. Very memorable.

 

[Nullnvoid]

It was filled with 80+degree wort.

How long will it last in the fridge?

 

[Mardoo]

Mine have lasted as long as 3 months in the fridge. Haven't gone past that yet. Those all sealed the lids as they cooled. I'd assume that made a difference, but can't say for sure.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Awesome, cheers for the help. I'll hopefully use it within a couple of months and it went into a schott bottle and I think will be clean enough.

What's the worst that could happen.