Barons Brewery In Sydney

[dr K]

Baron's came down to Canberra to preach the preach and show us how they brewed in the UK. The presentation was nice, and the beer was good. However, after they left, I got a bit of a thing happening and started a mini rant about the fact that they had never actually BREWED a beer. All of their offerings were AIB Recipe concoctions.. The Canberra Brew club in general raked me over the coals and told me to step into line, and realise that they were Aussie Brewers, even if AIB made the beer. I never stepped into line, and I still say it's sad that Baron's is such a big name, when they never once brewed their own beer. Good on them for the marketing and the contract brewing, but man it would be nice if a REAL Aussie micro would hit it big.... Well I guess Little Creatures is the closest and their beers are a fine offering, but they don't seem to want to go BIG.

My knowledge of Baron's, which whilst not extensive is probably broader based than many, suggests that they, being the principals, have brewed beer, many beers, and not just 80 litre batches in the backyard but considerably larger pilot brews, using australian native ingredients, to get just that particular australian feel that , yes, would be marketable in the US. As to a rant on the Canberra Brewers website, frankly, I cannot remember one, particularly one where a member was raked over the coals, something which is rather unknown in the club really, of course the CBC website is a private forum and is "postpost" moderated so there may have been some sanitizing, it does happen from time to time. Barons have done a wonderfull job getting real (cf fosters) australian beer recognised overseas. Oh, have a look at a box of James Squire beer one day if you want to argue contract, and indeed think of Petes Wicked Ale, contract brewed from the word go I suggest.

K

 

[Bizier]

I bought my six pack of their ESB on the way home tonight... and came home to read this. I agree that the one Baron I have had the plonourable heasure to meet was very tuned in to the fine details of his beer and very forthright with information for a listening ear. I wish them all good luck and fortune.

Just don't let them forget the ESB if the lager gets popular.

 

[marlow_coates]

Certainly not trying to knock the smaller guys who do it tough with long days, and getting their hands dirty on every brew.

It's just that the mobs who do it that way seem to have a pretty high attrition rate.

I think the Baron guys decided their dreams would be better realised by designing their beers first (with some help of professional brewers at AIB - the article I read said they tweaked the recipes to suit the systems), then contracting the brewing out, while putting their capital into advertising and marketing in both Australia and abroad (mainly the US).

Now they have a market and some proven (to a degree) beers, they are looking at taking what is usually the first step for a brewing mob, and are investing in an actual brewery.

I imagine they found it much easier getting financial backers once they had made a name for themselves, and widespread success in different regions, than would a local micro who would probably find it cripplingly expensive to supply a market anywhere beyond their local area.

Again, not knocking these other brewing mobs, just pointing out that Barons have approached the whole project from a different angle, and it seems to be working for them

Remeber reading a book on how to be a millionaire by some Hawaiin bloke with an asian name - someone here will have read it, I still see his books from time to time in airports etc....
He asks the question "Can you make a burger better than a McDonalds Burger?" to which just about anyone will answer "Hells yes", then he asks "Could you design and run a better business that McDonalds?" to which the answer is invariably "Probably not".

If all you wanted to do was make good beer, then that is a top achievement, and the most many people will strive for. But to turn what you love doing into a business that works, is a very difficult thing (to do profitably and well).

I hope these guys, and all the other small brewing groups do manage to find that level of success. And can hold on in a sometimes very tight market.

Marlow

 

[O'Henry]

Looks like it and hopefully be competitive with lower margins. Interesting if they can pull it off.

The regular range is $38 for a case at my local. Are you seeing it for more? If so, I imagine the retailer is the one marking it up.

 

[Thommo]

Marlow,

I think that's Robert Kiyosaki? The Rich Dad, Poor Dad guy.
And I agree with your post. A different (and quite successful) angle/approach to chasing their dreams.

Thommo

 

[marlow_coates]

Thommo - thats the guy. Don't remember much of that book, but his Maccas line stuck with me.

Marlow

 

[Count Vorlauf]

The Barons guys appear to be taking the route that Brooklyn Brewery in the US took. For years they contract brewed a single beer (Brooklyn Lager) at a brewery 100s of miles away while concentrating on growing sales and actually making more money in a beer distribution business. They did eventually set up shop and hired Garret Oliver as brewmaster. It would be hard to find anyone calling them poseurs.

That said, a few arguments against the contract brewing route:

- Craft brewing is a growing industry now and coming into fashion. As the latest "hot" thing it attracts speculators. They come in, pay someone to make their beer, see if they can make a bunch of money out of it. Often they do this by undercutting other, genuine breweries on price, giving away a bunch of shiny marketing gee-gaws and employing salespeople rather than brewers. If it doesn't prove profitable, or the next big thing comes along, they pull out leaving in their wake a bunch of folks who tried to do it the honest way and were in it for the long term, but found their market share gobbled up and publicans asking why they can't sell their beer for as cheap as "that other microbrewery", and where are the beer mats and giant banners while we're at it?

- "Craft beer" is a brand, as much as the golden arches. When someone tells you (or implies) that their beer is craft brewed you expect a few things: an independent business with local connections and the beer is being made by people passionate about their product with the best possible ingredients. You're not expecting it to be made in an huge industrial brewery right next to alcopops and fake imports (hello Cuba 59!) out by the airport. Contract brands glomming onto the craft brewing label dilute that brand. If you've ever stopped off in a town (e.g. Jindabyne or Byron Bay) looking for the brewery whose address is on the label and been disappointed you know what I'm talking about. A look at the boom/bust of craft brewing in the US in the mid 90's will show how these "faux micros" contributed to the crash.

- If you have the money, love beer, but don't feel like setting up your own brewery why not invest in an existing one? The reason that the small guys are struggling is often because they come from a brewing, not business, background. They're often too busy making beer, loading pallets, running around selling their product to chase up investors. Excise tax and the high capital involved with setting up and running a brewery make expansion difficult. You have a great idea for a beer and can raise some quid? I'd suggest calling around to local breweries and talking with them. You will get an invite to the AIBA dinner and get real satisfaction about contributing to the growth of a local business rather than the grind of flogging a product to bottle shops and pubs. Not to mention all the beer you can drink...

 

[dr K]

If you've ever stopped off in a town (e.g. Jindabyne or Byron Bay) looking for the brewery whose address is on the label and been disappointed you know what I'm talking about

I know but an unfortunate choice of towns...

 

[///]

My only comment on this is to correct a bit of information. The person responsible for the brewing specs and designing thier beers (Rich) does this for all thier beers, AIB or any other brewery would never come up with the recipe for them. There may be some collaboration on some points (filtration flavour suck and pasteurisation effects, fermentation details, efficiencies etc etc), which is had at any of the sites they have brewed at, including the brewing I have down with them.

Remember not all contract brewing is about world domination and evil motivation. It may be the case of a brewer who cannot meet demand, has an equipment failure or other issues.

Scotty

 

[marlow_coates]

Apologies ///,

Not trying to spread false info, just my information is from memory only, of an article I read yonks ago.

Glad to hear they do all the beer design.

Marlow

 

[Jazzafish]

Baron's came down to Canberra to preach the preach and show us how they brewed in the UK. The presentation was nice, and the beer was good. However, after they left, I got a bit of a thing happening and started a mini rant about the fact that they had never actually BREWED a beer. All of their offerings were AIB Recipe concoctions.. The Canberra Brew club in general raked me over the coals and told me to step into line, and realise that they were Aussie Brewers, even if AIB made the beer. I never stepped into line, and I still say it's sad that Baron's is such a big name, when they never once brewed their own beer. Good on them for the marketing and the contract brewing, but man it would be nice if a REAL Aussie micro would hit it big.... Well I guess Little Creatures is the closest and their beers are a fine offering, but they don't seem to want to go BIG.

Actually that is not true... far from it. AIB is a contract brewery that makes drinks to a set recipe and specification. AIB didn't dream up Barons recipes.

In fact, the bloke behind the barons recipes is a home brewer, and all of the recipes were great home brews before making their commercial attempt. If you had seen the recipes compared to the rest of the beer brewed at AIB, you'll understand what I'm talking about. His recipes seemed to have lmpre art in the process.

If more home brewers had the stones to seek finance to back themselves to produce their own beers on the comercial scale, local beer would be in a better place.

So what if you don't own the brewery equipment. It is still your beer.

 

[///]

No need to apologise, the quality of research and correctness in reporting is definitely low with some journo's. We are also related so I have the inside running there.

Scotty

 

[Jazzafish]

My only comment on this is to correct a bit of information. The person responsible for the brewing specs and designing thier beers (Rich) does this for all thier beers, AIB or any other brewery would never come up with the recipe for them. There may be some collaboration on some points (filtration flavour suck and pasteurisation effects, fermentation details, efficiencies etc etc), which is had at any of the sites they have brewed at, including the brewing I have down with them.

Remember not all contract brewing is about world domination and evil motivation. It may be the case of a brewer who cannot meet demand, has an equipment failure or other issues.

Scotty

This is 100% correct.

Good on ya Scotty for pointing out this truth

 

[Peteoz77]

The Barons guys appear to be taking the route that Brooklyn Brewery in the US took. For years they contract brewed a single beer (Brooklyn Lager) at a brewery 100s of miles away while concentrating on growing sales and actually making more money in a beer distribution business. They did eventually set up shop and hired Garret Oliver as brewmaster. It would be hard to find anyone calling them poseurs.

That said, a few arguments against the contract brewing route:

- Craft brewing is a growing industry now and coming into fashion. As the latest "hot" thing it attracts speculators. They come in, pay someone to make their beer, see if they can make a bunch of money out of it. Often they do this by undercutting other, genuine breweries on price, giving away a bunch of shiny marketing gee-gaws and employing salespeople rather than brewers. If it doesn't prove profitable, or the next big thing comes along, they pull out leaving in their wake a bunch of folks who tried to do it the honest way and were in it for the long term, but found their market share gobbled up and publicans asking why they can't sell their beer for as cheap as "that other microbrewery", and where are the beer mats and giant banners while we're at it?

- "Craft beer" is a brand, as much as the golden arches. When someone tells you (or implies) that their beer is craft brewed you expect a few things: an independent business with local connections and the beer is being made by people passionate about their product with the best possible ingredients. You're not expecting it to be made in an huge industrial brewery right next to alcopops and fake imports (hello Cuba 59!) out by the airport. Contract brands glomming onto the craft brewing label dilute that brand. If you've ever stopped off in a town (e.g. Jindabyne or Byron Bay) looking for the brewery whose address is on the label and been disappointed you know what I'm talking about. A look at the boom/bust of craft brewing in the US in the mid 90's will show how these "faux micros" contributed to the crash.

- If you have the money, love beer, but don't feel like setting up your own brewery why not invest in an existing one? The reason that the small guys are struggling is often because they come from a brewing, not business, background. They're often too busy making beer, loading pallets, running around selling their product to chase up investors. Excise tax and the high capital involved with setting up and running a brewery make expansion difficult. You have a great idea for a beer and can raise some quid? I'd suggest calling around to local breweries and talking with them. You will get an invite to the AIBA dinner and get real satisfaction about contributing to the growth of a local business rather than the grind of flogging a product to bottle shops and pubs. Not to mention all the beer you can drink...

VERY well stated Count Vorlauf! I Agree 100% I wasn't slamming Baron's, I was merely pointing out that I was surprised that they didn't brew their own beer. They started it very intelligently, and it's working for them. Glad to see that they are building a brewery and are going to be running the whole show!

 

[Peteoz77]

Actually that is not true... far from it. AIB is a contract brewery that makes drinks to a set recipe and specification. AIB didn't dream up Barons recipes.

In fact, the bloke behind the barons recipes is a home brewer, and all of the recipes were great home brews before making their commercial attempt. If you had seen the recipes compared to the rest of the beer brewed at AIB, you'll understand what I'm talking about. His recipes seemed to have lmpre art in the process.

If more home brewers had the stones to seek finance to back themselves to produce their own beers on the comercial scale, local beer would be in a better place.

So what if you don't own the brewery equipment. It is still your beer.

OK, I see where I stated "the fact that they had never actually BREWED a beer. All of their offerings were AIB Recipe concoctions.." That reads differently than it was intended. What I should have said was "None of the beers that they sell have been brewed by Baron's" and "AIB has taken their recipes and brewed them as instructed"

My apologies, as I didn't mean to imply that the recipes were thrown together by AIB. I was aware that all of their beers werre THEIR recipes... I just didn't state that very clearly.

 

[Peteoz77]

As to a rant on the Canberra Brewers website, frankly, I cannot remember one, particularly one where a member was raked over the coals, something which is rather unknown in the club really, of course the CBC website is a private forum and is "postpost" moderated so there may have been some sanitizing, it does happen from time to time.

LOL Kurtz, just because BOTH of our posts have been removed from the site, doesn't mean it didn't happen. :icon_cheers:

 

[bconnery]

I understand from Ross and PocketBeers' liver destroying New York trip that the use of Contract Brewers for bottled products is common practice in the US, or at least amongst micros in the New York area.

They brew their draught beers in house but anything that is bottled, or requires a reasonably large production run goes out to a contract brewery.

Given the issue that many of us have experienced with bottled offering from local craft breweries perhaps it is an approach that could find more favour here...

 

[///]

Would say this is off now VA for Barons

 

[WSC]

Would say this is off now VA for Barons

I wonder what happened as all reports I saw was that theri US sales were on the up.

Surprising how many companies expand into the US and go broke?????

 

[beers]

oh no... what will happen to 88 balls, lucky lager, Bakalar, & Barons lager?