Band aid from chlorine or wild yeast?

[pablo_h]

If chlorine is that volatile, wouldn't it gas out with all the co2 produced from fermentation?
I know of the leaving the bucket out trick, common in the chilli growing community (fill up watering cans, let them gas out overnight), so the chlorine doesn't kill good bacteria in the potting mix. Also the inverse, if you have root rot bugs, pour in some hydrogen peroxide to nuke the soil.
I wish I still had some sodium metabisulphite to deal with chloramine though. A few old kits had it, but I must have chucked them. Only have the old coopers sodium percarbonate and brigalow stuff (labelled as alkalii salts - probably percarbonate and I've never heard of metabisulphite called salts, but carbonates are.)

Might have to buy some campden tabs myself, as I think the problem is chloramines; personally I think the chlorine would gas itself off during fermentation.
E: Of course if you have the gear to reboil the water after letting it vent, do that too to get rid of chlorine, but I'm still kit brewing with no quick way to chill either, so I'm not boiling water for the wort anymore and don't like having to do that. Look at the chloramine first.

 

[manticle]

Chlorine comes out of solution above about 20 deg. The hotter the solution, the less time it takes.

While I have heard that simple agitation or an overnight stand can work, I have also read studies that suggested little shift occurs with either (that said, big, open pots were not used).

If the water is chloraminated, the ammonia binds with the chlorine and such simple techniques are no longer effective anyway. Boiling will still work but requires much more time for the same effect in which case filtration or campden are better options.

For my water, simple heating to strike temps are effective enough.

 

[Matplat]

Pablo, im pretty sure the brigalow alkali salts are caustic soda, not percarbonate. Thats why they have all the PPE warnings on the bottle.

 

[Matplat]

I wonder if the chlorinated water has had a detrimental effect on my hop plants...?

 

[Blind Dog]

From what I've read on the ever reliable interweb, it shouldn't affect plants, but can kill beneficial micro organisms. However, the effect only extends a small depth (10 to 20 mm) in the soil as the chlorine binds with other particles and becomes inactive as it passes through the soil. As the microorganisms that may be affected also live at depths greater than 20mm, the overall effect is negligible.

Note - I don't grow hops (yet), but can't imagine they are any more delicate than other plants, edible and decorative, we do grow with reasonable success that receive tap water

 

[Matplat]

Well.... The second batch has now been in the FV for 11 days ish and the previous off-flavour I thought was there is gone, it seems that even good beer tastes pretty average after only 3 days in the FV!

This is clearly a good thing (S&W pacific clone coming up! , except it leaves me wondering what the problem was with the first batch. My theory is that, when brewing the second batch, I perhaps left the mash water pre-heated for longer prior to mashing in which allowed the chlorine to be driven off. I also wondered if I didn't wash the caustic out of the system well enough prior to the first batch (although I don't know if that would have the same effect as chlorine), and I am also slightly suspicious of my first FV as I had one or two other bad batches out of it before christmas. I do need grain storage, so I might retire it.

Considering the swimming pool aroma I get from my drinking water bottle, I will still be adding sodium metabisulphite to future batches to stay on the safe side...

Cheers for all the help fellas.

 

[marksy]

I don`t know if its been mentioned already, but all the wild yeast infections I`ve ever had, had a very old socks and fruity smell to it. Kind of like when the fruit bowl in the kitchen goes bad.

 

[pablo_h]

I wonder if the chlorinated water has had a detrimental effect on my hop plants...?

Probably not.
You'll never kill all of any good or bad bacteria in the ground with tap water. The only time I bothered de-chlorinating water for plants was when I had potted plants in debco organic potting mix and using organic fertilizers like rooster booster or dynamic lifter.
For normal average potted plants/potting mixes, and using chemical fertilizers I never bothered either. Anything planted in the ground wouldn't be affected too.

 

[Matplat]

Hmmmm im using rooster booster, ah well.... i've pretty much given up on this season anyway.

 

[Drick]

Hi folks

Great to find this thread. I just poured a whole brew down the drain because of the bandaid taste.
I moved over to all grain in February and found my last few brews had an underlying flavor that I couldn't put my finger on, the last had enough of a medical flavor that I could identify the problem with the other brews. I've since started filling my tank the day before.
I guess I can just leave a towel over the opening to leave the gas out?

 

[peteru]

Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) has also been mentioned in other threads as a potential cure to chlorine / chloramine in water. Chemist Warehouse stock 100% pure ascorbic acid without any flavours or colours and it costs $8.99 for 125g packet.

http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/Buy/72667/Melrose-Ascorbic-Acid-125g

Vitamin C does not lower the dissolved oxygen as much as sulphur based chemicals do, so it may be a better choice than metabisulphite for brewing. Approximately 2.5 parts of ascorbic acid are required for neutralising 1 part chlorine. I'm not sure how much chlorine would be in a typical 20-25L batch, but at a guess I would say that 1g of ascorbic acid should be plenty.

 

[Matplat]

Yeah at first I went with sodium metabisulphite, but now I just measure out my water a few days before... after 1 day I find it still smells like a swimming pool when I open the lid. Time taken for it to dissipate depends on how much chlorine is in your water to start with... also you need to know if you are dealing with chlorine or chloramine, not sure if chloramine can be removed simply by aerating; and if it can it would probably take an unviable length of time.

 

[Reman]

Chloramine can't be waited out unfortunately. Sodium Metabisulphite is your best bet. I have a 1kg bag and add a scant pinch with my water adjustments. Very little is needed.

 

[rude]

potasium metabisulphite would be better unless of course you want sodium in youre brew

 

[peteru]

Either of those still gets sulphites into your beer, which is exactly the ingredient that many people point their finger at when they have reactions to drinking wine.

I still reckon it's a good idea to give vitamin C, aka ascorbic acid, a shot. Reading the literature on it, it appears to work for both chlorine and chloramine and the effect is virtually instantaneous. Leaving you with better oxygen solubility than metabisulphite is another win. And we all need more vitamin C in our diet, so you are making healthy beer with vitamins! Easy sell.

Just need to add fibre and it's a health elixir for sure...

 

[manticle]

I don't react well to something in wine, load dependent and have always presumed it's excess sulphite. Could be methanal instead though.

Anyway my understanding is that unless you really overdose your brew, the sulphites should get bound up pretty easily. Beer natually has some level of sulphite too, even if none is added.

Boiling will remove chlorine pretty quickly. It will remove chloramines as well but it takes a lot longer. Activated charcoal filter is another possibility if your water is disinfected with chloramine.

I believe ascorbic acid can be used too (mentioned above) but only from recent reading. I think Adr0 knows a bit more about this.

 

[Nick667]

Thanks for bringing this topic up Matplat I have been struggling with the same problem I think.
a while back I saw the light on a few brewing issues and started making some great beers. So I went into full production ( 1 brew every 2-3 weeks ) and was bottling and brewing on the same day using the pink stuff to sanitize, for a fast fix.
Lots of lawn food.

 

[manticle]

If chlorine is that volatile, wouldn't it gas out with all the co2 produced from fermentation?

Asked a while ago but not answered.

Chlorine needs to be removed pre-fermentation as it reacts with yeast to form off flavours.

 

[Reman]

Doing a quick google, chloramines can be removed with 20 minutes of boiling. Or a 1000mg vitamin c table will do a medium bathtub of water, I'm not sure what the bathtub to litres ratio is, but I'm guessing less than a quarter tablet would be required.

I'll still use the metabisulfate as I have a fair bit left and I use so little and haven't noticed an adverse reaction, but in the future I think the ascorbic acid might be a goer.

 

[SBOB]

I'm not sure what the bathtub to litres ratio is,

1/2 full = ~80 litres
mostly full= ~140 litres