Australian Saison

[mosto]

Given the Australian climate and the nature of the Saison style (ie refreshing, dry, fermented at higher temps), they seem a match made in heaven. I'm surprised we don't see more Saisons brewed locally, or even more readily available locally.

Anyhow, I've been contemplating brewing a Saison using all Australian ingredients. I'll obviously wait until the weather warms up a bit, but the grain bill would be easy enough with a Pilsner/Wheat mix. With the range of locally bred hops now available, that shouldn't be a problem. The main issue is with the most important ingredient of a Saison, which is the yeast. This is the problem with doing any all Australian beer as we only really have the one local strain, Coopers. I love the Coopers strain and use it often in Pale Ales (I'm not so much of a fan of it in darker ales). Would the Coopers yeast handle being pushed out a bit temp wise, say to 25c? I'm assuming I'd get a heap of pear and banana esters, but would it move into the unpleasant territory? Coupled with some Galaxy / Ella as late addition(s), could provide a nice tropical fruit hit.

Anyway, I'll keep you updated when I get around to making it, but any shared experiences / advice is always appreciated.

 

[goatchop41]

I'm sure that everything that you have mentioned would give you a nice dry, refreshing beer, but a saison it ain't, it would more resemble a light, dry Aussie pale ale (it could actually be pretty similar to an S&W Pacific ale with all of that wheat and the Aussie hops).
This may seem a bit elitist (maybe categoric-ist/style-ist would be a better description?), but I wouldn't consider it to be a saison without a saison yeast...It would be like fermenting a wheat beer with US-05 and calling it a hefeweizen. I'd go with all Aussie ingredients and just accept that to make a saison, you'll need an international yeast!

 

[mje1980]

Exactly. I subbed Maris otter in a saison once and was a little worried itd affect the final flavour. Lol the yeast is the dominant character in saison by a mile. If you don't use a saison yeast it's not going to be anything like a saison.

Make sure to mash for super dry, and if bottling use champagne bottles with high carbonation

 

[crowmanz]

I've had the India Saison from Bridge Road/Nonge-O, http://bridgeroadbrewers.com.au/beers/special-releases/india-saison, a hoppy saison with Galaxy and Stella. Was quite nice, but uses a saison yeast.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I'd have a crack at the idea, hang on, I have! I've made a few beers just building the recipe into the Saison or IPA ranges on beersmith. Mashing at ~ 62c. (post strike temp) in esky starts at ~64c that drops to 60c after 3 hours. FG ~ =1.006. I like the Coopers yeast. If you were to recycle the yeast from brewing it at the higher temp it may evolve into something of a Saison strain? Thats how different strains evolved in the first place isnt it?

 

[mosto]

Some great thoughts as on here as always. My main thought was to push the Coopers yeast to it's limit to see what it brings to the party. I'm assuming strong pear and banana, as opposed to citrus notes of a traditional Saison. I'm still keen to try the idea, taking on board that it won't be a Saison in the traditional sense...a Psuedo Saison as it were. Looks like I just found a name for it!

 

[Mardoo]

Wouldn't be too surprised if some wild Aussie yeasts came up with a saison-ish goodness. TimT and a couple others have had some luck isolating strains. Not sure what they've come up with flavour-wise, but if you're up to trying to isolate one he/they may be able to help you.

EDIT: This is the thread I was thinking of. Sorry, I was on my phone before.

 

[kevo]

Psuedo Saison as it were. Looks like I just found a name for it!

What about Psueson?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Ha! Wordplay on that is worthy of Craft Beer. Now I have a plan for the next brew on the drawing board. B)

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Ausion?
This probably wont even pass as as a Psuedo Saison but heres a crack at the idea. I will start ferment at ~18c and creep up the temp to 25 over first 4 days.
Profile:
5.2% ABV
9.1 EBC
31 IBU


The idea is to go towards the characters of Saison. With in an Aussie way ha...

2 keg brew - 38lt

6kg Pilsner malt and 2 row malt. 50/50. (not quite all Australian but for now will do)
1kg Wheat Malt
1kg Munick (oops, again)
0.8kg Acid Malt

Unmodified Melbourne Water!

35g Galaxy for 30min
40g Galaxy flame out - 20min
1 keg gets 50g Summer Dry Hop
1 keg gets 50 Galaxy Dry Hop

Most importantly for authenticity, its brewed in Australia.

edit: oh, with Coopers Ale Yeast cultured from their bottled Celebration Ale. 2nd Culture.

 

[kevo]

This thread reminded me of an old discussion from a long time back comparing Coopers sparkling and Orval - not that they're the same, but share some similar characteristics.

I've also long heard of Orval being compared closely to a saison... So thinking Coopers yeast may contribute something interesting to a saison-esque beer

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/13823-orval-coopers

Not sure if that link will work, but you know what to do...

Kev

 

[TheWiggman]

Can't agree with you there Dan. Way too much acidulated malt and the wrong yeast. It's a bad idea to reculture yeast from strong beers and you won't get good results. Moreover, if you're using Coopers yeast with that recipe you're going to make a pale ale with a Coopers twist.
I don't think the Aussie saison is a workable concept for one reason - yeast. Saison is all about the yeast. To sub a few things out and still not have a saison yeast won't make for a saison. I'd say Mardoo's on the ball, maybe there's a high-attenuating farmhouse strain in Aus that would give a similar flavour profile. If that were used THEN you'll have an all-Australian saison.
As for why they're not popular? Because they don't suit the Aussie palate. They're nothing like the standard lagers and have a wheat-like profile, which is not popular. I've had one (the Bridge Road one above) and that was enough of a reason for me to not buy another. The majority of people just do not like these types of beers.

 

[mje1980]

This thread reminded me of an old discussion from a long time back comparing Coopers sparkling and Orval - not that they're the same, but share some similar characteristics.
I've also long heard of Orval being compared closely to a saison... So thinking Coopers yeast may contribute something interesting to a saison-esque beer
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/13823-orval-coopers
Not sure if that link will work, but you know what to do...
Kev

Except that orval has Brett, which is a massive part of the flavour. Bit like saying tooheys new is kinda like Guinness, just without the roasted barley and proprietary yeast.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yeah its just a sourish PA. Made some good beers lately so this may be a miss we'll see. Its in the mash now at 63c.

 

[kevo]

Except that orval has Brett, which is a massive part of the flavour. Bit like saying tooheys new is kinda like Guinness, just without the roasted barley and proprietary yeast.

Yes, yes, yes - no ones saying they're the same... have a read of Thirsty Boys posts in the linked thread where he notes similar characteristics - not that they are the same beer.

 

[Mardoo]

While you're thinking about this it may be good to have a look at this thread:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/79324-Designing-a-recipe/page__view__findpost__p__1158877

 

[manticle]

Straysion.
Do it with jw pils, wheat, por and 3711.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

haha, Austraison? :chug:

 

[MartinOC]

Australaison? :chug:

FTFY

 

[Tropico]

We could borrow from our indigenous brothers and call it "Birak" or "Burran"