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Gordon did mention something about our point allocation on the sheets being slightly different. Yes, the official BJCP is 12 for aroma and 3 for appearance. Which I personally think is better as appearance isn't as important as aroma for me.

But everything being in multiples of 5 makes it a bit simpler I guess.

The difference would be 4 points x 3 judges, maybe 12 points? I personally dont like the 3 only for appearance, most brewers put in big efforts too produce awesome looking beer.

Also appearance is less subjective than aroma. More emphasis on non subjective content the better. Just my 2bobs
 
Gordon did mention something about our point allocation on the sheets being slightly different. Yes, the official BJCP is 12 for aroma and 3 for appearance. Which I personally think is better as appearance isn't as important as aroma for me.

But everything being in multiples of 5 makes it a bit simpler I guess.

Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process


:rolleyes:

Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:

Mash a tad lower
Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style.

:icon_cheers:
 
Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process


:rolleyes:

Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:

Mash a tad lower
Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style.

:icon_cheers:


You'll need to teach me some secrets for a mild Bribie... my last attempt was ok, but attenuated too far and i mashed too cool... hmmm perhaps somewhere in the middle and we could take home the prize :party:
 
Makes it easier for their Commodore64 to process


:rolleyes:

Seriously, great feedback particularly with my dark mild, and for next year if I do it again I'll know to:

Mash a tad lower
Attenuate a bit further (not Ringwood)
If it gets a place in the State then definitely rebrew for the Nats, as it had gone off its 'fresh' peak and some vinous flavours starting to creep in. Nice beer but just gradually drifting off style.

:icon_cheers:

Yep good feedback.
I'll remember to reserve an extra bottle from the state finals should there be a next time. Having to bottle from the keg of a not-to-style "ESB" because the reserved comp bottle proved to be a gusher was not my best moment. "Stale and oxidised" who would have thought it? Bloody last minute panics :rolleyes:
 
I am not happy with my scoresheets for APA. Very limited feedback, and when there are comments, they are vague and/or unhelpful, and the handwriting was near illegible on two of them. If the beer had done really well, I wouldn't be so worried (hard to provide advice on a beer that would be difficult to improve on). However, my beer completely bombed, which shocked me, and I really wanted some decent feedback so I can avoid this in the future!

Cheers - Snow.
 
Yep good feedback.
I'll remember to reserve an extra bottle from the state finals should there be a next time. Having to bottle from the keg of a not-to-style "ESB" because the reserved comp bottle proved to be a gusher was not my best moment. "Stale and oxidised" who would have thought it? Bloody last minute panics :rolleyes:

I've been keeping all my bottle conditioned comp bottles in a wardrobe where they stay at a constant temp, however next year if Allah spares me and smiles on my beers I'll keep all BABBs and State winners in the fridge at 4 degrees in suspended anno from now on :icon_cheers:
On that point, I believe the overall winner keeps kegs for months and I'll see if he's willing to disclose whether they are kept in the garage or constantly refrigerated for that time.
 
I've been keeping all my comp bottles in a wardrobe where they stay at a constant temp, however next year if Allah spares me and smiles on my beers I'll keep all BABBs and State winners in the fridge at 4 degrees in suspended anno from now on :icon_cheers:

That's what I always do Bribie, my first in the British Bitter was in suspended animation since April.

Snow, I had the same problem as you, couldn't read 2 of my score sheets at all, it was just scribble.

And while I'm at it, I really do hope that the AABA seriously looks at giving the placings a certificate next year, this is the ultimate competition in Australia and it's nice to have something to frame and hang on the wall.

Andrew
 
That's what I always do Bribie, my first in the British Bitter was in suspended animation since April.

Snow, I had the same problem as you, couldn't read 2 of my score sheets at all, it was just scribble.

And while I'm at it, I really do hope that the AABA seriously looks at giving the placings a certificate next year, this is the ultimate competition in Australia and it's nice to have something to frame and hang on the wall.

Andrew
Something AKA Throphy and/or Certificate with your name on it would be a helluva lot nicer then just a glass with the category and place on it. It was the first time I've seen what you get for national prises this year and I though they were as lame as.

It's a like the old tourist T-shirt saying :

My relatives went to Hong Kong and all I got was this bloody T-shirt.

I won the National Title and all I got was a lousy glass.

Considering at State level, well here in SA you get a trophy and a certificate with your name on it for getting a place and it costs half as much to enter too. Perhaps if the hosts of AABC in 2011 have the opportunity to organise the trophies as well maybe everyone will be in for a plesant surprise.

Just putting it out there!
 
quirks_fridge.jpeg

B) B) B)
 
I am not happy with my scoresheets for APA. Very limited feedback, and when there are comments, they are vague and/or unhelpful, and the handwriting was near illegible on two of them. If the beer had done really well, I wouldn't be so worried (hard to provide advice on a beer that would be difficult to improve on). However, my beer completely bombed, which shocked me, and I really wanted some decent feedback so I can avoid this in the future!

Cheers - Snow.

My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.

-Browndog
 
My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.

-Browndog
This is something that should be brought up with the organising committee.I remember at Vicbrew ,judges were advised to write more "descriptive" comments of the entry,not just 3 or 4 words .At AABC level i'd expect a lot better.It's bloody difficult judging at times,and my handwriting isn;t the greatest ,but every judge should make an effort to provide informed,constructive ,comment on the beer in question.People pay good money to enter comps ,and deserve to get constructive criticism(if any),on a score sheet that they can read .Very disappointing that this isn't the case at this level ,Something for the organisers to think about,i reckon
 
All my comments were great, I know what to improve next time around.
 
So if i'm selected, will it be shipped to the other side of the globe :)

tom


Hi Tom,

You joined on 13 June 2008 and its taken all this time to lodge your first post :) welcome to the forum Buddy :icon_cheers:

Cheers
C
 
My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.

-Browndog
I here ya dog
The spread between my American brown was 34.5 and 41
The spread between my Continental Lager was 39 and 32

At national level to be that far apart makes one wonder? The 39 bjcp made good comments re. balance. The 32 bjcp judgemade comments acetaldehyde, diacteyl, astingency,grainy/oxidised B) if it was that bad it should have scored less than 32. Gawd, where do I start to fix ALL those problems.

This is something that should be brought up with the organising committee.I remember at Vicbrew ,judges were advised to write more "descriptive" comments of the entry,not just 3 or 4 words .At AABC level i'd expect a lot better.It's bloody difficult judging at times,and my handwriting isn;t the greatest ,but every judge should make an effort to provide informed,constructive ,comment on the beer in question.People pay good money to enter comps ,and deserve to get constructive criticism(if any),on a score sheet that they can read .Very disappointing that this isn't the case at this level ,Something for the organisers to think about,i reckon

+1
2 judges versus 3 with such wide variances in score..... then doing countbacks on overall impression seems a wee bit lop-sided. No doubt tonnes of room for improvement. The 7 point reference is too widely used and egos combined with no or little discussion on the beer being judged can play a huge role. Anything outside of 4 point difference surely requires discussion and more tasting/time. Seen it first hand everybody being pushed pushed but as long as we are within 7 that will do.
 
I here ya dog
The spread between my American brown was 34.5 and 41
The spread between my Continental Lager was 39 and 32

At national level to be that far apart makes one wonder? The 39 bjcp made good comments re. balance. The 32 bjcp judgemade comments acetaldehyde, diacteyl, astingency,grainy/oxidised B) if it was that bad it should have scored less than 32. Gawd, where do I start to fix ALL those problems.



+1
2 judges versus 3 with such wide variances in score..... then doing countbacks on overall impression seems a wee bit lop-sided. No doubt tonnes of room for improvement. The 7 point reference is too widely used and egos combined with no or little discussion on the beer being judged can play a huge role. Anything outside of 4 point difference surely requires discussion and more tasting/time. Seen it first hand everybody being pushed pushed but as long as we are within 7 that will do.


My issue was not with the scores, just the fact that there was barely any writing on the score sheets, just circling and ticking, no comments in the overall impression, one judge gets brett, the other diacetyl. Very dissapointing.
 
All I can say is I've learned not to listen too hard to the judges comments, they are very useful for picking up technical faults, but dont always get it right. My dry stout in AABC had 2 judges tell me to ease up on the dark crystal, even though there was no crystal in it at all :)

Comps are a bit of fun, & a great oportunity to get involved in an event that gives you a chance to mingle with other great brewers & learn from each other & also a great chance to try different beer styles & learn what you'ld like to (or not) make. Tasting Kolsch will nearly always give you an oportunity to experience diacetyl :)

Whilst judges should give as much feedback as possible, it has to be acknowlegded that they have a tough job of getting though each beer in 10 mins & I noticed in particular 1 panel suffered from palate fatigue & scored a porter really well that to my mind was a full on stout. Also most comps you will find generally only have 1 BJCP judge, if you're lucky maybe 2 out of the 3. More people need to sit the exam & participate to help push the bar higher.

The appearance scoring needs attention. there is a lot of inconsistency with judges.

A perfectly haze free black beer should not be described as opaque, it is either clear or bright.
I also understand that a clear & bright beer should be both full scoring as it gives advantage to brewers with filtration systems & creates an uneven playing field.

Comparing spreads between judges is largely irrelevant everyones palate is different, they review their point scoring and on occasion will have to amend to get within 7 points after rationalising the differences of perception. What is important is that a judge who scored you 3/5 & you felt it should have been 4/5 will also most likely have judged the rest of the entries in a similar manner.

A clear beer with the right head & anywhere within style colour range in my mind should score 4.5 to 5 out of 5, it seems to me judges sometimes psychologically struggle with giving maximum points. Having stewarded at a dozen or more comps now I would say that at least two thirds of the beers should be scoring close to full marks.


PS: I intend to do the BJCP course next year.
Anyone interested in advancing their beer knowlegde should get in touch with George & give expression of interest: [email protected]

He will close the gate soon & then get a consensus on what is the most suitable night for all the interested people, once a day of the week is settled then folks can confirm or pull out.

1 midweek night per fortnight for 10 sessions from early Feb (central location Melbourne)
($15 per session for beer costs)
exam $50 incidentals $50
 
My APA scoresheets were absolute rubbish. I expected much more from BJCP judges.

-Browndog
What I posted on another forum after reading my judging sheets, I too feel your pain!!!
Got mine tonight, already knew a couple of my beer got a bagging points wise so was eager to see why. Now I have compared the judging sheets from SABSOSA and AABC and I'm seriously spewing

Disclaimer: The Following Rant is not directed at any individual or organisation as I don't believe anyone is to blame or say anyone is better at judging then another. I'm just stunned by the huge variation in score and feedback given by the judges so much so I'm embarrassed by what was written by the some of the AABC judges.

<WTF_RANT>
1. ESB = Bitter Ale SABSOSA 1st place
SABSOSA Score 37.5 average
BJCP Feedback: Good beer brewed right in style guidelines, with skill does sit a bit flat on the palate lacks crisp refreshing characters but well done overall
AABC Score 24 average
BJCP Feedback:Hard to drink Hot Solventy, burning flavour. Weak Malt Lingering sharp bitterness Alcohol Fussel Heat/burn

2.APA SABSOSA 2nd place
SABSOSA Score 40 average
BJCP Feedback:Very nice beer bitter is slightly on the higher end Malt and Hops evident
AABC Score 25 average
BJCP Feedback: The harsh bitterness made this beer hard to drink needs some malt character to support this.

I just don't understand why my entries in SABSOSA and AABC were from the same batch bottled the same time kept constantly refrigerated until required for submission. Can end up poles apart when judged. I've also tried samples I've been able to drink post SABSOSA and had no issue. I just don't understand what goes wrong with my beers between submitting my entries and and being judged at AABC </WTF_RANT>

Just makes you wonder if its worth the hassle to make it that far only to be told your beer is crap
 

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