Aussie Brewer Disputes German Beer Law?

[HoppingMad]

Coopers Pale Ale is all malt, apart from the prime, which is invert. Coopers Sparkling contains a maximum of 5% sugar as an adjunct.

Haven't seen the infamous 'whiteboard photo' at the Coopers brewery reproduced in 'Amber & Black' but our own Recipe DB suggests Coopers Pale uses cane sugar too. (comment on base of recipe).

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=483

 

[buttersd70]

Haven't seen the infamous 'whiteboard photo' at the Coopers brewery reproduced in 'Amber & Black' but our own Recipe DB suggests Coopers Pale uses cane sugar too. (comment on base of recipe).

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=483

perhaps that's whats in the DB recipe, but coopers, having, been contacted directly on the subject, responded with an email that has been posted here.

 

[Zwickel]

Hello homebrewers,

even over here in Germany, the "Reinheitsgebot" is contentious. Fortunately we homebrewers dont need to follow that f***ing rules.

I dont care about it, but its interesting for me to see so many opinions about it.

I found a remarkable page in the internet, it seems as the author would be very much jealous about our rules, although some of hes arguments are very true:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~patto1ro/reinheit.htm

cheers :icon_cheers:


ahem....I forgot to say: I love XXXX Gold and Bitter, Queenslands No.1 beer rocks :super:

 

[Thirsty Boy]

One of the main reasons sugar is used in mega brewed beers in Australia is exactly the same reason that is is often used in Belgian beers. To increase the alcohol content while not increasing the body or maltiness of the beer, to ensure drinkability.

Handy that it allows better throughput and more economical brewery operations as well really.

A belgian say's - we add sugar to give the beer strength but ensure it remains drinkable. And its a revered brewing tradition.

Chuck Hahn says it and he is an evil purveyor of bad brewing.

Australia is a hot country - one where people like to drink very cold, lightly flavoured beer - in bulk. At that is 95% of the market. So thats what big breweries make.

You dont like it - I dont like it - but 95% of everyone else out there does. Who am I to tell em they are wrong. Especially when they are keeping me in a job.

 

[Screwtop]

What is all of this Hoo Har regarding sugar, FFS German purity law forbids it, Belgians use heaps of it, it's all to do with style. Here in Australia it's use came about due to the old "if in doubt. tick cost" addage. In the 19th century malt was expensive to transport, there were small sugar refineries everywhere where cane would grow, so availability in some areas saved costs. Sugar had been used to make beer, so why not. It is a part of Australian beer styles - like them or hate them. To achieve a certain level of dryness in beer my yeast of choice needs a little help so "flame suit on" I use a little sugar to achieve the required FG "flame suit off". Other aspects of beer profile can be manipulated using water chemistry and mash shedules, don't hear anyone badmouthing water treatment or PH adjustment.

Think sugar gets a bad wrap due to it's use in the A-typical Cidery Kit beers. I used to believe that the cideryness came from the use of sugar, but soon discovered that malt age, yeast strain and fermentation temp were more to blame.


Screwy

 

[blackbock]

I was under the impression that one of the original reasons for using adjuncts here was not to save money, but to lighten the body and allow the use of 6-row barley high in undesirable nitrogen which would otherwise produce a hazy, inferior product.

Of course the by-product of using sugar is cheaper ingredients, personally I don't mind what they use, just as long as they don't bullshit about the superior properties of their beer vs someone else's. Chuck Hahn sounds like a real w*nker.

 

[3G]

Brewing would be boring and limited without adjuncts.

 

[petesbrew]

The germans have got it half right, aussie megaswill beers are crap compared to theirs.
I mean I'd much rather grab a $40 slab of german-budget-supermarket beer, than most aussie beers, considering they're asking around the same.

I do love my schooner of Old though, and if it has sugar in it, so be it.

 

[AndrewQLD]

What is all of this Hoo Har regarding sugar, FFS German purity law forbids it, Belgians use heaps of it, it's all to do with style. Here in Australia it's use came about due to the old "if in doubt. tick cost" addage. In the 19th century malt was expensive to transport, there were small sugar refineries everywhere where cane would grow, so availability in some areas saved costs. Sugar had been used to make beer, so why not. It is a part of Australian beer styles - like them or hate them. To achieve a certain level of dryness in beer my yeast of choice needs a little help so "flame suit on" I use a little sugar to achieve the required FG "flame suit off". Other aspects of beer profile can be manipulated using water chemistry and mash shedules, don't hear anyone badmouthing water treatment or PH adjustment.

Think sugar gets a bad wrap due to it's use in the A-typical Cidery Kit beers. I used to believe that the cideryness came from the use of sugar, but soon discovered that malt age, yeast strain and fermentation temp were more to blame.


Screwy

Never a truer word spoken Screwy, +1.

Cidery beer and the twang is more to do with poor brewing practices and stale ingredients than sugar.

Andrew

 

[warrenlw63]

As much as it pains me to defend a mega brewer you blokes are forgetting a vital point.

They fill local beers full of sugar because that's what their consuming public is attuned to and most probably expects. They don't make it for us the whingeing minority.

Also plenty of British Brewers are using varying degrees of sugars and we do nothing but applaud most of them.

Warren -

 

[AndrewQLD]

perhaps that's whats in the DB recipe, but coopers, having, been contacted directly on the subject, responded with an email that has been posted here.

Butters, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet in regards to this CPA clone, I'm wondering why?
When I formulated the recipe it was based on the ingredients list from the white board photo and my mashing practises at the time, which was pretty much a single infusion rest and a short mash out.

You seem to forget that a clone recipe is not only about the ingredients but about producing a beer that ENDS up as close to the original as is possible, and using my system and mash schedule the addition of sugar (as Coopers once did) was essential in getting the attenuation required.
Home brew systems are totally different to the larger commercial systems and hence the results of the same recipe are different as I am sure you know, so a homebrewer has to "tweak" the original recipe to attain the same final results.

Having said all that if you read in the discussion thread for the CPA clone I have since experimented with a 4 step mash regime and salt additions to get the same result without using sugar. But I have to say it is a lot more involved and time consuming than going with the simple CPA with sugar recipe.
Sorry for the slight deviation off topic.

Andrew

 

[hazard]

I really cant believe what he says about Cane Sugar in beers :angry: , all natural???


Oh yeh, and I was recently shocked to read that Tooheys Old contained 20-30% Sugar also..

While i don't agree with adding a lot of sugar to beer as espoused by Chiuck, I must admit that sugar is natural - where do you think it comes from? It grows in a field just like barley. Sugar cane is as natural as barley malt, it just doesn't taste as good in beer. That said....

Before I started home brewing (only 18 months ago) my 2 regular beers were Tooheys Old and JS Amber Ale. I was surprised to read Chuck's interview in BYO when he stated that Toohey's Old was 20-30% sugar (and this is an unsubstantiated claim - does anybody have a source of truth on this?) and that JSAA was 20% sugar (I guess that this claim is true, Chuck should know what he puts in his own beer!!). I have to say that I am now making better beer than either of these (IMHO ) but I still don't mind either of them. I got up to Sydney last month and really enjoyed a schooner of fresh Old from the tap. I've lived down south for may years now, and its easy to get stubbies but hard to find Old on tap anywhere. Maybe sugar isn't as evil as some people on this forum make it out to be?

Oh and on really special occasions (like when someone else is paying) I like Chimay Blue. Now that is a magnificant beer, like many other belgian beers, and also like many belgian beers it contains ... sugar! Never stopped Belgium from making good beer.

Hazard

 

[Bizier]

I regularly use sugar as an adjunct in higher alc beers, or to dry out a beer when using a lot of extract. I love big commercial beers that use sugar.

I appreciate JS for showing me some styles back when I knew no better (and I still get a bottle of their IPA when there is nothing else)... but they haven't really embodied all the philosophy they preach in the marketing.

I think Hahn should shut his wordy gob and brew a properly big and exciting beer, unlike his "crossbreed of barley wine / imperial pale" or whatever he called it, that weighed in at a mighty 7ish%...

If I celebrated my 10 and 20 years in commercial simultaneously in a beer, I would want it to be BIG and bold... and I mean something to get your head around.

 

[WSC]

I think everyone has a right to make beer how THEY want.

No one forces me to drink a certain brand of beer and no one forces me to make a certain type of beer.

I think the sugar arguement has been overdone, there is no right and wrong. But in my mind there is what tastes good and what tastes average. There is what you choose to buy and what you don't.

 

[jayse]

I was surprised to read Chuck's interview in BYO when he stated that Toohey's Old was 20-30% sugar (and this is an unsubstantiated claim - does anybody have a source of truth on this?)

What makes you say this is unsubstantiated?
Chuck would have brewed millions of litres of it in his time at the big Lion Nathan breweries/*cough*beer factorys

 

[KingPython]

Chuck Hahn a true ANZAC hero, taking down Germans one at a time h34r:

 

[Peteoz77]

From what I understand, the "German Purity Law" has been defunct since Germany joined the European Union. It was considered to be against free trade practices to force Germans to adhere to a law when none of the other EU members had to do it.


Or something like that....

 

[jayse]

Food for thought, there used to be a law punishable if I remember correctly by death for taking hops cutting out of the zatec region also similar sentences for brewing beer that failed to get your guests intoxicated many centuries ago.
So maybe if we want to stick to old laws maybe we should start putting people to death for brewing light beer with NZ saaz. :lol:

 

[Asher]

Chucky wrote...

"It's more refreshing on a hot day than German beers it's brewed for our climate."

WTF!

Putting purity aside for a moment. Has anyone measured the FG of a maltshovel beer lately. I think you'll find quite a bit of residual sugars hanging around in there compared to a crisp German lager....

 

[jonocarroll]

It is well known that the law had nothing to do with purity, but price protection. There are many reinheitsgebot "compliant" beers out there that in my opinion are simply crap.

Gee, if only someone had said that in post #3. <_<

What is all of this Hoo Har regarding sugar, FFS German purity law forbids it, Belgians use heaps of it, it's all to do with style.

OR, the old law prohibited it, and the new one doesn't. I think someone said something about that in post #3. <_<

From what I understand, the "German Purity Law" has been defunct since Germany joined the European Union. It was considered to be against free trade practices to force Germans to adhere to a law when none of the other EU members had to do it.


Or something like that....

... something like that. Maybe something 'exactly' like that was said in post #3. <_<

Ah, stuff it.