Auber PID SYL-2352P - Beginner needs help

[neo__04]

Hey all,

Finally got my brew rig built and am on the testing/electrics phase of the project.
Trying to work out and setup my Auber PID SYL-2352P.

I cant seem to get it to do what I think it should.

I have changed a couple of settings, mainly to get it to celcius, and i think i changed the HY from .3 to .1 based on a thread here somewhere.

Im really struggling with the programming of it. Im just trying to do basic things to test.

I need an example... Say ambient water temp is 13 degrees. I want a simple test program to heat from ambient temp to say 25 degrees then hold there for 10 mins.

Step1 - C10 (anything lower than current reading?) T (not sure what time to put on initial step
Step 2 - C25 T10 (25 degrees, hold for 10 mins)

Any ideas what im doing wrong? Im sure it simple, i just havent got my head around how it wants me to program it.

Also when am i suppose to run the auto tune? near a temperature i want to mash at?
Or while its new, an autotune near ambient so it knows the basics of how much it can heat/how long then run it again when its around mash temps?

Also anyone have a list of standard settings for us brewers running an ssr and heating element.

Thanks heaps, Slowly getting setup.

 

[dmac80]

It's been a while since i used mine, but try Hy=2 Hy-1=3 and Hy-2=3

then C01=25 and T01=10

It should not start rest timing until temp = (SV-Hy-2+Hy) or 24 degC.

Do you have the ramp soak supplementary instruction manual? I got this info from Example 4.3


Cheers

 

[neo__04]

yeah i did read that in the manual. ive read through it all. Just didnt want to change those settings without some advice here first.

so to clarify....

Step 1 - C01 - Is the starting temperature for the program, just have it under the temp of the current water?
Step 1 - T01 - Time it takes to ramp to Step 2 T02?

If this is the case, and i change my HY values.. Can i do the following..

assuming water is 13 degrees
Step1 - C01-10, T01-1 (starting temp is lower than water temp, time is 1 min, due to changed HY settings, the next step wont start till its 1 degree below 55?
Step2 - C02-55, T02-0 (hold 55 degrees)

is this correct.

Sorry if this sounds very basic, just trying to get my head around it all

 

[dmac80]

Having c01 lower than the initial water temp won't work either as it will be too far above the setpoint to start i think, this is set via the Hy-2 setting. there's probably no need to do that anyway.

It's been a while since i used mine, but try Hy=2 Hy-1=3 and Hy-2=3

then C01=25 and T01=10

It should not start rest timing until temp = (SV-Hy-2+Hy) or 24 degC.

Do you have the ramp soak supplementary instruction manual? I got this info from Example 4.3


Cheers

if you use the settings i have listed above but set c02=25 and t02=-121, it will ramp to 25 at the maximum rate, hold there for ten minutes, then stop (-121 is stop). What i neglected to post earlier is that the time set in T01 is the time to get to C02 (if co2 is set to 30 it will ramp from 25 to 30 over 10 mins, or if it is set to 25 it will stay at 25 for 10 mins)

Keep playing with it and reading the manual and it should all come together eventually.

Cheers

 

[TSMill]

I set C01 to my start temperature (55) and T01 to 0, which will just get me to my start temp and hold it there until I manually initiate the run cycle. If you wanted to hold at 55 for 10 minutes after doughing in you would add C02=55, T02=10,C03=55.

 

[JotaPerro]

I set dP=1 to give the readout .1 degree resolution. You'll need to change "sn" to suit the temp probe type you're using, mine is 21 for RTD. Set "t=2" for SSR.

I auto tune (set at=2) when the process value is within a few degrees of the set value. It runs auto tune for a few cycles up and down, and when you're mashing, the cycles are going to be very tight around the set value, so there's no need to auto tune all the way from cold start up temps. When you do a full system test run, let it run for a bit using the standard tune, then run auto tune.

Using your example:

C1=10, T=30 (Ramp the temp from 10, to C2 over 30 minutes)
C2=25, T=10 (A soak step is really saying ramp the temp from 25 to 25 over 10 minutes
C3=25, T=-121 (Exit)

I've never played with the Hy settings, but that example 4.3 is good because it won't start the timer until the temp has risen from ambient.

I think you need to get an idea of how many degrees per minute your system can increase temp, then make sure your ramp step time is slightly longer. This is because the program will go to the next step based on time, and not whether the desired temp has been met.

My basic mash schedule to mash for 60 minutes, then mashout and hold for 10 minutes looks like:

C01=60, T01=5 (Over 5 minutes ramp temp to 66)
C02=66, T02=60 (Soak this temp for 60 minutes. Technically it's saying ramp the temp from 66 to 66 over the next 60 minutes))
C03=66, T03=10 (Ramp to 77 over 10 minutes)
C04=77, T04=10 (Hold 77 for 10 minutes)
C05=77, T05=-121 (Exit)

 

[TSMill]

I've never played with the Hy settings, but that example 4.3 is good because it won't start the timer until the temp has risen from ambient.

I think you need to get an idea of how many degrees per minute your system can increase temp, then make sure your ramp step time is slightly longer. This is because the program will go to the next step based on time, and not whether the desired temp has been met.

Isn't the point of the hysteresis settings to suspend the timer until the temperature is at/near the defined setpoint?

 

[neo__04]

Cool. I think I'm starting to see how it wants to be programmed.

I think I was most confused by the likes of step 3 listed above.

C03=66, T03=10 (Ramp to 77 over 10 minutes)

That states 66 degrees, 10 mins. I just have to get my head around the fact that the temp at the start is the starting temp, then a time, then the temp in the next step is the temp the last step raises too. Think I'm getting my head around it. I'll have a play and see how I go

 

[neo__04]

Ok, well I thought I'd first try the simplest step and go with what tsmill does.
I set c01 as 30 and t01 as 0

He said that should get it to 30(my value) and hold there till you run the rest of the program.

My program looks like this

C01 30, t01 0
C02 30 t-121

Shouldn't this start it's way to 30, hold the program, then when I tell it to run, it should stop?

What setting do you guys have your auto/manual on?

Because the above program just flashes stop, after I've run it.

I'm massively confused, can someone pls give me an example program with low temps so I can test quickly?

Current water temp is 12.4 degrees. Let's say I just want to heat to 25 then hold. That's all.

What would I program?

Thx heaps guys

 

[JotaPerro]

Isn't the point of the hysteresis settings to suspend the timer until the temperature is at/near the defined setpoint?

Wow, I've read the manual so many times, and couldn't get my head around it till you said that. I've only used mine as in example 1 in the supplement. That would make things a lot simpler if I get those set properly.

"If the maximum speed of the system is unknown or varies with environmental conditions, users should use the “safety start” function to ensure that the temperature and time during ramping and soaking are kept within a reasonable range required by the process. This is done by setting the deviation alarm close to the SV. At the beginning of a step, the timer will not start until PV is larger than SV-Hy-2+Hy and smaller thanSV+Hy-1-Hy. e. g. Set Hy-1=30, Hy-2=20, Hy=5 and SV=100. At the beginning of the step, if the temperature is below 85 (SV-Hy-2+Hy=85) degrees, or above 125 (SV+Hy-1-Hy=125) degrees, the controller will stop the timer and try to control the temperature to be above 85 degrees or below 125 degrees before continuing. It will control the temperature to reach this range as soon as it can. Please note that the Hy value should be smaller than both Hy-1 and Hy-2. Otherwise the controller will not start the next steps."

It all makes sense now. So like in dmacs example, you'd want to keep fairly small Hy-1 and 2 numbers, and as close to Hy as possbile?

 

[JotaPerro]

My program looks like this

C01 30, t01 0
C02 30 t-121

I think to do it like TSMill you'd need:

C02=30, T02=10
C03=30, T03=-121

 

[neo__04]

Hmm, well does the programming change if the HY settings are adjusted according to the post above?

Also just tried...
C01 30, t01 0
C02 30, t02 10
C03 30, t03 -121

Goes straight to step 2, with no heating output happening so far 3 mins into the 10.

I must be missing something here

 

[JotaPerro]

Does the PV reading seem accurate? Is the "OUT" light on?

 

[neo__04]

Pv seems fine.

Can you give me a small program to test and I'll reply back and tell you what it does?

Also what setting do you have your auto/manual on?

Thanks heaps for this, doing weird stuff on this end. I thinks it's a combination of settings and me not fully understanding how to program it

 

[TSMill]

I don't think you have the option of manual control on the ramp/soak model.

 

[brewologist]

Does the absence of manual control on the 2352P mean that it isn't much good for controlling the boil?

Can the 2352P control a boil or do you need to run a 2352 PID for that?

I'm putting a brew controller together but not sure if the 2352P is the best option for the boil kettle.

Cheers,

 

[TSMill]

I have mine wired up with 2 SPDT switches which allow heating via the PID (for mash), or to bypass it and just run the element balls to the wall for the boil.

 

[neo__04]

Well now I have a different problem. I have changed the HY settings as suggested.

Set it to go from current water temp of 38 degrees to 44 degrees over 10 minutes. It's now at 50 degrees, 7 minutes in and the element is constantly on. And the alarm light is on due to HY settings.

Why would it do that? Not cutting power to the element even though it's over temp.

Also on the topic above, just realized myself this may not be the best pid for boil due to no manual. If u have 2200w for a 23 liter batch it will be find flat out. If u have way more power, it will be a big big boil, otherwise you and I may need to look at a simmer stat thing mentioned around the forums to control the power of the element

 

[brewologist]

I have mine wired up with 2 SPDT switches which allow heating via the PID (for mash), or to bypass it and just run the element balls to the wall for the boil.

Sounds good.

Although, I am building a double batch rig with a 5500w element. I'll have about 60L all up at mash in.

I fear that once it gets to the boil it will boil over with that much power.
I'm an impatient ******* and want to ramp quickly between mash steps and to boil

I may have to run two PID's in my controller.

Edit: Sorry - Off Topic

 

[neo__04]

well i sorted out my problem. I read somewhere to set cool on 3 for celcius. Well thats celcius, but also for cooling. not heating... lol oops. all that and it was a stupid setting. well as least this might help others.

thx for all the help guys