As if I needed another reason to not buy C.U.B. products.

[goomboogo]

And, there was no welfare state until Sir William Beveridge got the ball rolling so whats your point, don't tell me you think its thanks to your socialist party.

I don't know what you refer to as my socialist party. Unlike some, my views aren't clouded by an unwavering allegiance to a particular political party. My views are clouded by many things but not by the need to parrot the drivel of one political party.

Although William Beveridge was pivotal in the direction taken in Britain after WWII, social services pre-date Beveridge by centuries. You need to realise that there is a world outside of Britain. Australia would be well served by a government who subscribed to concepts put forward by William Beveridge more than 70 years ago. His report on Full Employment encompasses an idea that has been eschewed by governments in the last 50 years. It is to our detriment that the Australian polity of 2016 is bereft of the integrity displayed by William Beveridge.

 

[goomboogo]

If there were no capitalists to keep the masses gainfully employed, that would mean we wouldn't have to pay tax.
If we didn't make tax contributions then the first things to go would be welfare, then the hospitals and schools. :huh:

Can you outline the process in the National Accounts that indicate the transfer of taxation revenue to accounts utilised for government spending?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Getting back on topic, does anyone really believe a representative of CUB would go to the maintenance staff and say heres your cab charges go to see your new employer and by the way you have a 65% pay cut.
And they were only working 12 hours a day 7 days a week just so others could have a cold beer after work, wasn't that nice of them
"Those 50 workers ... have been working seven days a week, night and day, so the average punter out there can have a nice cold beer after a hard day's work, that's the way it should be," he said.
"Four weeks ago, [CUB] comes out and says you are all sacked on the spot – with all the arrogance of the big end of town – and said here's your cab charges, go to your new boss, it's a 65 per cent wage decrease."

 

[madpierre06]

"It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but ourselves"

If there were no capitalists to keep the masses gainfully employed, that would mean we wouldn't have to pay tax.
If we didn't make tax contributions then the first things to go would be welfare, then the hospitals and schools. :huh:
Whatever government funding could be scraped together would be going towards the police and military forces. h34r:

So thank goodness (not God) there are people willing to invest their own hard earned money into industry to keep those of us who want to work, in a job.

Trouble is WEAL, they are not interested in keeping those of us who want to work in jobs. They are only interested in thosae who will accept what they are willing to dole out , as little as possible, and be able to hire and fire at will when it suits THEM. That is not a job. A job is something which allows you to buy a car, a house, take family on a holiday, save a few quid, provide some security for your family. 38/40 hours a week. Fulltime. And there is less and less of those around.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Can you outline the process in the National Accounts that indicate the transfer of taxation revenue to accounts utilised for government spending?

You don't have to be a Rhodes Scholar to work that out, if as stated there were almost zilch tax revenue coming in, there would be a poofteenth of zilch being set aside for government spending.

 

[goomboogo]

WEAL, you are falling for one of the great misconceptions of modern economics. The reason you can't answer the question is because the question does not have an answer. The reason an answer doesn't exist is because taxation does not fund the spending of the federal government in Australia. Another falsehood is that the Australian government borrows to fund it's spending desires. To think this, is to misunderstand the nature and manner in which the bond market operates.

Please don't perpetuate the untrue notion that the federal budget (incorrectly named) is analogous to the budgets of households, businesses, state governments or local governments. People only make these comparisons when they have little understanding of the monetary system under which the national government operates in 2016. The year is not 1970.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its all the fault of the Unions

 

[Zorco]

fark yeah, words and meaning and stuff

 

[pcmfisher]

I don't know what you refer to as my socialist party. Unlike some, my views aren't clouded by an unwavering allegiance to a particular political party. My views are clouded by many things but not by the need to parrot the drivel of one political party.

Although William Beveridge was pivotal in the direction taken in Britain after WWII, social services pre-date Beveridge by centuries. You need to realise that there is a world outside of Britain. Australia would be well served by a government who subscribed to concepts put forward by William Beveridge more than 70 years ago. His report on Full Employment encompasses an idea that has been eschewed by governments in the last 50 years. It is to our detriment that the Australian polity of 2016 is bereft of the integrity displayed by William Beveridge.

Did William Beveridge have anything to say about the rationing the UK had until 1954?

 

[goomboogo]

Did William Beveridge have anything to say about the rationing the UK had until 1954?

Are you asking whether he had a view or whether he played a part in the rationing continuing for so long past the conclusion of the war? He had no say in the decision to prolong rationing into the 1950's. The decision to do so was largely due to an ideological drive of the labour party rather than the service of any practical purpose.

 

[Camo6]

Getting back on topic, does anyone really believe a representative of CUB would go to the maintenance staff and say heres your cab charges go to see your new employer and by the way you have a 65% pay cut.
And they were only working 12 hours a day 7 days a week just so others could have a cold beer after work, wasn't that nice of them
"Those 50 workers ... have been working seven days a week, night and day, so the average punter out there can have a nice cold beer after a hard day's work, that's the way it should be," he said.
"Four weeks ago, [CUB] comes out and says you are all sacked on the spot – with all the arrogance of the big end of town – and said here's your cab charges, go to your new boss, it's a 65 per cent wage decrease."

I may not believe all that's written in such articles but I believe what's written is written well. It's an inflammatory article aimed at inciting anger, resentment and retaliation from the working class. That's how a Union works. Strength in numbers, one in all in, yada yada. Without unity of the masses we'd be little more than serfs. These articles don't need to be accurate, they just need to get a point across.

In saying that, I bet they (the maintenance staff) would have been working seven days a week, day and night. Not at the same time but the article doesn't claim that. :lol: It also wouldn't surprise me if a CUB HR officer conducted their dismissals. I only know these things because I'm married to a Harbinger of Doom, Grim Reaper, HR officer.These meetings have to be coordinated carefully to avoid repercussions from Fairwork and it's common practice to walk them out then and there to avoid reprisals from disgruntled staff (imagine if someone filled thousands of bottles of Carlton Draught with mouse shit and cat's piss :unsure: )

What can't be denied is that CUB has accepted a contract that has dramatically reduced the wages of skilled labourers and denied their replacements of the hard won rights many fought hard to gain. To vindicate CUB/SabMiller/Tyrannical Beer Despot of any unfair action is laughable. Let's be honest. The only reason they're still making the beer in Australia is because it would cause an uproar and drop in sales if it came from anywhere else. It wouldn't be the first time someone's used cheap overseas labour for financial gain.

 

[Vini2ton]

Capitalists never invest their "hard-earned" in ventures. They use some other poor schmuck's money. If it fails they run away to Majorca. Like all these house invasions down here in Melbourne. Someone's got to pay for them and guess who? Us that pay insurance premiums. These multinational companies are taking the whole world for suckers and their lackeys (the tories) are their political arm. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[manticle]

My boss invests, long term but he has no shareholders to answer to and is a rare example of how to think long term and what capitalism ideals could be.
Great approach, unfortunately rare.

Those who have, generally hold on tight. That would be ok if they didn't demand so much from everyone else.

 

[nosco]

(imagine if someone filled thousands of bottles of Carlton Draught.................and cat's piss :unsure: )

But didn't they.........Never mind.

I've been drinking a lot of Invalid Stout lately. Please don't hate me.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

My boss invests, long term but he has no shareholders to answer to and is a rare example of how to think long term and what capitalism ideals could be.
Great approach, unfortunately rare.

Those who have, generally hold on tight. That would be ok if they dodn't demand so much from everyone else.

I have a similar boss

The company he ( and his wife, sister and BIL ) could have easly said "**** it , lets take the money and run " The owners are in their 50-60's


Instead, I actually get to work for an employer who has genuine empathy for us, the worker. Of course you dont get a free ride, but they always appreciate that bit extra you do, and are very flexible and understanding. I n some ways they have become my friends.

But... I have also had the exact opposite..

And its always the big guys who dont give 2 fucks

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

But didn't they.........Never mind.

I've been drinking a lot of Invalid Stout lately. Please don't hate me.

I just got back from the pub after drinking Coopers IPA on tap all afternoon.... $5.60 and 6%..... yeeeh har bitches... **** I am pissed

 

[manticle]

Reptilian overlords will **** all of us up anyway so **** it.

Might have a chance if the benevolent dolphin beings get a guernsey.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

We need more benevolent dictators

 

[warra48]

I'm not taking sides, nor defending anyone from either side in this debate / issue.

Let's be clear, it's not only the employers who are part of the capitalist system. Contrary to what most people will believe, the unions/workers are actually also part of the capitalist system. It's simply a fight between business and the workers about distribution of the proceeds of capitalism, although it's not necessarily an equal fight.

If it wasn't so, we'd still live and work as serfs or slaves for our overlords in a pre-capitalist society.

 

[Camo6]

Reptilian overlords will **** all of us up anyway so **** it.

Might have a chance if the benvolent dolphin beings get a guernsey.

We need more benevolent dictators

Manticle spells a word wrong. Stu spells the same word right.

Don't try to tell me the reptilians haven't infiltrated our society.