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wide eyed and legless said:
There are lots of fancy names for fixing economies, no matter what method is used to appear that money has been obtained with fancy footwork from the RBA the banks, at the end of the day the time will always come to pay the piper, as is happening in Venezuela at the moment, 17 years of a socialist government and inflation running away at 750%, 1 weeks worth of food to last 1 month.
On our doorstep we have the Asian nations just waiting for the opportunity to show how cheap their labor is compared to Australia, all the manufacturing that we have lost recently, all gone off shore to one of our surrounding neighbors.
I took a trip to Moorabbin which a few short years ago was a hub of both small and large factories all there is there now is importers for the $2 Shops (and we all know how fastidious the Chinese are with their book work and keeping their taxes up to date ;) ) and the take away food shops most of all the manufacturing has gone.
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Wide eyed and legless, learn how to pull your head in and accept that there are people in this world that know things you don't and like the print
media , having an opinion, that you are entitled to have , doesn't mean what you say is true or accurate .
 
But that won't help Roosterboy; point him and us to the sources of truth and accuracy you know of.

It is terrible to ever just believe others know the truth about something. Truth needs to be found out for yourself sometimes.
 
goomboogo said:
Venezuela is a poor example to use when talking about Australia. Enlighten us on the factors that contributed to economic circumstances that confront Venezuela. What's your view on the role of real resource constraint in the Venezuelan economy? How do you think Australia compares to Venezuela in terms of the allocation and use of real resources? Do you believe Venezuela's foreign denominated debt is somehow comparable to the Australian situation? In your view, did the currency peg and the manner in which the Venezuelan government managed the currency play a role in the slide of the nation's economy?
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Venezuela has a far smaller debt than us but the contributing factor is, as you pointed out earlier governments spend the money before they get what they expect to be getting, so the money has been spent and lo and behold, the oil price has plummeted so all the money that was borrowed has to be paid back and now they find they can't. As for a comparison to Australia if the hypothetical theory of investors pulling the money out of Australia because the labor market was just too high and our government (doesn't matter which party) would still have the debt to pay back without resources to draw from.
 
My point is not that governments spend the money first and then raise revenue later to pay for the spending (as you say in the above post). My point is, taxation revenue is never the source of federal government spending. In an accounting sense, taxation is flushed from the system once it is received. So, it doesn't matter whether resource prices fall. This has no bearing whatsoever on Australia's ability to service it's bond commitments. This is why Venezuela is a poor comparison. They have billions of dollars of debt in currencies other than their own. Unlike debt denominated in a country's own currency (Australia), this has to be serviced by obtaining that foreign currency. In Venezuela's case, they have to sell whatever they can in order to get that foreign currency. This is why the oil price and production issues impact on Venezuela's ability to pay that particular debt. Australia doesn't run the same risk because it does not borrow money in foreign denominations.

Australia's floating exchange rate also makes comparisons to Venezuela's economy difficult. Venezuela has a very convoluted fixed exchange rate system. They have managed their currency so poorly that a situation was created where people could make more money from currency exchange than from manufacturing or agriculture. This was only one of the mechanisms that set the country down the path to being a poor producer and ultimately, a near worthless currency and an inability to provide the population with adequate goods and services.
 
But don't you think that without a capitalist driven economy Australia could find itself in the same situation?
Venezuela has had 17 years of Socialist government and all they have now is a huge debt, and what appears to be no choice of fixing it.
 
Careful WEAL. When the revolution comes, we'll be ******.

Lenin_Got_Rope_Capitalists.jpg
 
wide eyed and legless said:
But don't you think that without a capitalist driven economy Australia could find itself in the same situation?
Venezuela has had 17 years of Socialist government and all they have now is a huge debt, and what appears to be no choice of fixing it.
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Its not that it is a "Socialist Governement", Its a case of a badly run government. Wouldnt matter what sort of government you have if it is poorly run
 
wide eyed and legless said:
But don't you think that without a capitalist driven economy Australia could find itself in the same situation?
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I haven't heard of anyone seriously advocating such a change. There is a big difference between a government fully controlling the production and distribution of goods and services and the idea that a federal government has the ability to utilise fiscal policy for the betterment of the population. This is still carried out within a capitalist structure. One of the great con-jobs pulled off by monetarist economists has been to convince people that governments are subservient to whatever a globalised financial system throws at them.
 
goomboogo said:
I haven't heard of anyone seriously advocating such a change. There is a big difference between a government fully controlling the production and distribution of goods and services and the idea that a federal government has the ability to utilise fiscal policy for the betterment of the population. This is still carried out within a capitalist structure. One of the great con-jobs pulled off by monetarist economists has been to convince people that governments are subservient to whatever a globalised financial system throws at them.
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and hence the larger infrastructure works requied in nearly every capital city have been avoided, and by this I mean 20 year projects, such as the VFT ( very fast train). Because the project won't finish in a government term it doesn't get done, all because at the next election the opposition points out a great big deficit. Note we have already spent billions on feasability studies and such. It's taken 20 years to turn soil on Syney's second airport, by the time it's complete we'll probably need a third. What we need from government is long term vision, not short term reelection.
 
Quoting myself from page 1 of this now epic.




"I don't care how you paint this, it's a **** act by a company that can and should look after it's workforce."


That is still the bottom line for me. Yeah trim the dead wood if required but, if you want employees who will work hard and look after your business it needs to be a two way street. I don't see where the "oh its just the capitalist system" or "its just economics" should result in the people at the bottom of the pecking order getting screwed yet again. Every decision made by a politician or a CEO in this country is only to further their own interests by screwing over the people. Yep People, families, mums, dads, home brewers we all end up copping it. Instead of looking down at us to save the economy/their business some of these decision makers need to look at themselves and their rich mates.
 
Ducatiboy stu said:
Good luck with that brother
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So, Weal and MastersBrewery are your brothers. Are than any more of you siblings on this forum?
 
MastersBrewery said:
and hence the larger infrastructure works requied in nearly every capital city have been avoided, and by this I mean 20 year projects, such as the VFT ( very fast train). Because the project won't finish in a government term it doesn't get done, all because at the next election the opposition points out a great big deficit. Note we have already spent billions on feasability studies and such. It's taken 20 years to turn soil on Syney's second airport, by the time it's complete we'll probably need a third. What we need from government is long term vision, not short term reelection.
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Spot on. Sometimes I think this country's political goals are purely focused on a pissing contest between the two big parties. We need to vote for the independents even if all it does is to wake those fat rich fuckers up to what their real purpose is.
 
Bridges, when it all boils down a balance has got to be met, understanding that there are people out there who invest their hard earned money in a company must have a return, not should, but must, otherwise the invested money will go where it will get a return, the world is a small place and if investments are attractive overseas that is where the money will end up.
Companies have a right to award contracts where it seems fit, you don't know nor do I what those contracts have written into them, I can't imagine a company tendering for a contract writing in what they will be paying the employees who are to carry out the work, it just doesn't make sense, so why would a union picket a company over the said contract.
 
spog said:
Never ever ever attending a group brew day......
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Pfftt.....You should have been at the first couple of Qld Xmas Swap meet..

There where so many illegitimate love childs there that you couldnt pick the fake ones
 

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