Anything obviously wrong?

[Scobieb]

Hi Guys,

Was wondering if you could take a look over my brewing process and let me know if you think there is anything im doing obviously wrong. I've made two brews this year and both haven't turned out too good.

I nearly always use dry malt extract and steep some grains. I'd steep the grains in a separate pot usually but these two batches i've steeped in the same pot as the main boil. Once steeping is completed, I add the malt (or at least some of it) and then once boiling add the first hop addition. Then add the other hop additions as the boil continues. The remainder of the malt i'd chuck in with 5 minutes to go.

I'd then put the lid on the stockpot and put it straight into a sink of cold water. I'd replenish the water at 30 minute intervals. Once this is done i then strain the wort into the fermenting vessel (in this case a 15 litre plastic one, which I only fill 10 litres of in total) and add water up to the 10 litre mark. I'd then use a digital thermometer to check the temperature of the wort and if it is ready to pitch the yeast. If not i'd continue to cool in my wine cooler (which I use to ferment in).

Once the temperature reaches pitching temperature of the yeast, i rehydrate the yeast and once it's at roughly the same temperature as the wort, i'd pitch it. After pitching i'd agitate the wort a little for 60 seconds or so.

Then attach the airlock and stick in the wine cooler at a constant temperature of between 16c and 18c. I'd check in the first few days for the airlock to bubble (it has done on these two). Then after a couple of weeks, begin to test the gravity. Once I get a few readings the same in a row. I'd get ready to bottle.

I bulk prime so I make a priming solution up in a pan with some dextrose and boil. I then let this cool before putting in the bottom of a second fermenting vessel I have. I then attach tubing to the initial fermenter and drain it into the second fermenter with the priming solution in. I can't get the tube through the airlock so I have to leave the lid off the secondary vessel as I drain the liquid from the primary. Once down, I'll put the lid on. Give it a little shake, let it settle for 30 mins and then commence bottling.

Bottling I use a bottling tool, I tend to fill 5 or 6 bottles and then cap then and continue until I'm finished.

Is there anything there, that you think i'm doing wrong which would cause problems with my beer?

 

[goomboogo]

What are the problems with the finished beer? Could you give some details of the recipes for these two beers?

 

[Wilkensone]

Hey Scobie,

First off can you give us a description of what is actually wrong with the brews, taste, carb, off flavours etc.

I haven't done kits before but a couple things I picked up on:
- When you finish steeping are you removing the grains from the pot or boiling the steeped grains?
- Like I said haven't done kits but is there a reason chucking the remainder of the malt in at 5 mins?
- When bottling have you cleaned/sterilised everything before hand?
- How long are you waiting after bottling to drink?

Wilkens

 

[gap]

Do you remove the grain before the boil?

 

[Scobieb]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I should have mentioned what was wrong. Its actually hard to put my finger on really. There is lots of flavour up front especially on the pale (which I used Cascade for), so big grapefruit flavours. But it becomes very sour in your throat at the end of the taste and the body feels almost watery. I actually just opened one now so I can describe as I try it. Also I noted with this one, the bottle went crazy when I opened it, foamed for maybe a couple of minutes.

As for the other questions:

When you finish steeping are you removing the grains from the pot or boiling the steeped grains? - I'm removing the steeped grains, squeezing the grain bag with a sanitised spoon
- Like I said haven't done kits but is there a reason chucking the remainder of the malt in at 5 mins? - I'm using the kit designer on the first page of this forum. So I'm separating the malt as per the instructions there
- When bottling have you cleaned/sterilised everything before hand? - yes, I clean the bottles the night before and sterilise on the day
- How long are you waiting after bottling to drink? - My first taste is a minimum of 2 weeks, I then try a bottle a week from there.
- Do you remove the grain before the boil? Yes

 

[gsouth82]

Your comment, "Give it a little shake", could be introducing unwanted oxygen. You'd be better off giving it a gentle stir with a sanitised spoon.

 

[Camo6]

What are you cleaning your bottles with and do you use any no-rinse sanitisers?

Were your final gravities matching with the software predictions?

 

[Scobieb]

gsouth: Do you mean at the bulk priming stage or the pitching yeast stage?

Camo6 : I'm using Brigalow Bottle Washing Powder (which I believe is just Akaline salts), then a no rinse sanitiser

 

[gsouth82]

gsouth: Do you mean at the bulk priming stage or the pitching yeast stage?

Aerating the wort prior to pitching the yeast is good. (and your 60 second stir at pitching is fine)
Introducing oxygen at the bulk priming stage is bad news.

 

[Scobieb]

Would I be introducing oxygen just piping from the initial fermenter to the second one? It has no lid on, or is it just the shaking that could introduce oxygen?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Are you sanitising the strainer cleaned in non-detergant (aka brewing) cleaners? ie. don't clean with detergent and just grab from kitchen drawer and use in your beer.

You said you can't fit the hose in the airlock, are you transferring from primary into the secondary to bulk prime via a tube in the top and splashing it around? If so you are oxidisin your beer, connect the tube to the tap at the bottom and transfer slowly. Never shake or stir the wort/beer after you've pitched your yeast as a good rule of thumb.

 

[Camo6]

The sourness could be infection or yeast stress maybe. What temp are you steeping at? Is there a LHBS or an experienced brewer you can get to taste it?

 

[Scobieb]

Yes I am...do you think I should be laying the tube on the bottom of the second vessel rather than it being say an inch or two off the bottom?

 

[gsouth82]

Would I be introducing oxygen just piping from the initial fermenter to the second one? It has no lid on, or is it just the shaking that could introduce oxygen?

I keg and effectively do the same thing, transfer from primary to keg. I put the primary on the bench and the keg on the floor then use some food grade hose to transfer ensuring the hose is touching the bottom of the keg (or fermenter in your case). This eliminates splashing and allows the keg/fermenter to fill from the bottom up.


The trick is to eliminate the introduction of oxygen where possible. You cant totally eliminate it but there's steps you can take to minimise it. Like filling from the bottom up or a gentle stir with a spoon.

I'm not saying this will fix your issue but will defiantly help in making a better and more consistent beer.

 

[Scobieb]

Steeping between 65-70c. I'm not a member of a LHBC but know a few people

 

[pat86]

It sounds like you are doing things quite sensibly to be honest.

Did you brew batches last year or earlier which didn't have the off flavours? (is it just the 2 this year?) Do you have other homebrewed beers to compare too?

Are you getting quite clear beers or are you getting trub/ yeast in your bottles which is causing some funk?

If the problem is malt related, you could try subbing in LME instead of the dry malt you are using (ps. is it fresh?)

Coopers LME, Briess, etc. would be very reliable and there are quite a lot of recipes around.

If it is just oxidisation, I thought that usually is more noticeable after time, so your early tastings might have been OK and you would have said that the flavour is getting worse as the beer ages...

Perhaps if you detail both recipes we can compare the similar practices and ingredients to narrow it down a little if both of them have the same off taste.

 

[Scobieb]

Hi Pat,

I'd say the beer was definitely getting worse with age and I did have the same problem last year as this. Was hoping the wine cooler and a stable fermentation temperature may have been the problem but it appears not.

Beer is relatively clear. The only other though I had was that my stockpot is pretty done for, so I've purchased a new one a couple of days ago.

Recipe wise I've used one from byo website which was the pale and the second was the esb recipe from 'how to brew'

 

[yum beer]

I agree with the oxidation during transfer for bulk priming.
Oxidation will lead to thin watery beer often with a metallic or medicinal flavour.

Also how are you storing your bottles, at what temp, in a dark place, etc.
Storing at high temps has a very bad effect on bottled beer, especially those with live yeast as homebrew.

 

[CrookedFingers]

Hi Scobieb
I'd be thinking you don't need aeration with dry yeast.
Also shaking after priming is probably not a great idea.
You would just be introducing unnecessary aeration, maybe oxidising. (as above, yum beer got in by mere seconds !)

CF

 

[yum beer]

You would just be introducing unnecessary aeration, maybe oxidising. (as above, yum beer got in by mere seconds !)

CF

Ah yes, Im a sneaky little fucker.......