American Pale Ale

[ernie]

Howdy

Found an extract American Pale Ale recipe on thebrewhut.com. it includes the following ingredients (i have converted pounds & ounces to kilos and grams;

2.7 Kg light malt
340g crystal 20 (30 min)
225g carapils (30 min)
60g cascade (60 min)
60g kent golding (10min)

My question is....what amounts of grain and hops would I need if I want to use a base of a Coopers Pale Ale kit and 1 Kg LDM, rather than 2.7 Kg of unhopped malt.

I am thinking less grain and less hops due to the flavour and bitterness that will already exist in the kit.

would 100g each of crystal and carapils do?
and what about 20g cascade for 20 min, 10g Kent goldings for 10 min, and 10g kent golding at flame out for 10 min?

thanks for your help
E

 

[RobboMC]

Any amount of grain will do, but why not keep all the grain, and make an even better beer?
I've used a kit, can of malt and up to 1000 g of grain without any real problems. Makes great beer.

I reckon you're on the right track with the hops, perhaps you need another 20g boiled for 45 to 50 min to bitter the extra malts you have.

Also, with that much effort on the malt and hops, consider upgrading your yeast.

 

[ernie]

thanks robbo, yes a yeast upgrade is a given.

I've not used more than 100g of crystal before, I'm sure I read somewhere that too much crystal can make the beer sweet??

also, I note on the tbh site they talk about crystal 20, crystal 40 and crystal 60....what's the go there? are they different grains?

 

[wildschwein]

thanks robbo, yes a yeast upgrade is a given.

I've not used more than 100g of crystal before, I'm sure I read somewhere that too much crystal can make the beer sweet??

also, I note on the tbh site they talk about crystal 20, crystal 40 and crystal 60....what's the go there? are they different grains?

I looked it up on the net recently and the numbers are a scale (lovibond) representing colour. The higher the number the deeper the colour of the crystal malt. So 10 is lightest 100 is darkest. Anyone please correct me if this is wrong.

 

[drsmurto]

My thoughts FWIW

1 can coopers bitter ( i like an APA to more bitter than an ordinary ale)
1.5 kg liquid malt extract
250g light crystal
50g choc malt
10g of cluster pellets at 15mins
15g of chinook pellets at 15 mins
20g cacasde pellets, dry hopped at rack.
US56 (05) yeast

could even add some cascade at flameout. :chug:

Cheers
DrSmurto - drooling on my keyboard whilst typing

 

[boingk]

I'd suggest logging onto countrybrewer.com.au and checking out their APA Wetpak. 3kg hopped malt extract [real hops], 150g grain, hops, and S-04 for $31.

I'd tell you what mine is like but I've somehow managed to have it uncarbonated - all bottles! - after a fortnight in the bottles...damn! :angry:

EDIT: Just remembered thinking at the time of bottling that it was the tastiest thing I'd ever tried out of the fermenter

 

[Stuster]

I'd tell you what mine is like but I've somehow managed to have it uncarbonated - all bottles! - after a fortnight in the bottles...damn! :angry:

It might just be the temperatures ATM, boingk. Are they in a cold spot?

I made the Country Brewer wetpacks when I first started brewing and thought they were great.

 

[discoloop]

Earl, unless you actually have a particular reason you want to use the kit, why not give the full extract recipe a go? I think it looks pretty tasty as is!

 

[blackbock]

I'd suggest logging onto countrybrewer.com.au and checking out their APA Wetpak. 3kg hopped malt extract [real hops], 150g grain, hops, and S-04 for $31.

I wonder why they supply SO4 instead of US05. SO4 is nasty stuff IMHO

 

[Trent]

Earl
No matter what ya do with an APA, ya will wanna add some cascade or similar at the end of boil, or dry hopping, rather than the EKG stated in the recipe you found. If you are after some good hops and advice, head in and see Mark at Marks Home Brew in Islington (seeings as you are from Newy), he and Keith are very knowledgable.
340g crystal is fine in an APA, I usually use 145EBC, but 75EBC will add a little less sweetness, and Mark has both. The grain will definitely improve the beer.
Dr Smurto's recipe looks pretty good, and Stuster has hit the nail on the head with Boingk's problem of undercarbonation (having loads of probes with it myself ATM)
Use some US-56 dried yeast, ferment it at ambient temps inside the house, and you will have a very nice beer.
All the best with it, I am sure it will work out fine.
Trent

 

[boingk]

Stuster - Yeah it may be...I've had the bottles here for a while and I totally forgot [even as I was writing] that it was using an ale yeast and not a lager. Tells you how many lagers I've done in ratio to ales - I'm warming up my room as I'm finishing the Chilli Vanilli...hopefully all goes well!

 

[leeboy]

I Agree with dr Smurto, drop the Kent goldings in a APA. Perhaps replace with amarillo or willamette for the traditional APA flavours. Adding Goldings takes it inbtw APA and English PA. Still will taste great though. This years goldings is really on the money

 

[Darren]

Howdy

Found an extract American Pale Ale recipe on thebrewhut.com. it includes the following ingredients (i have converted pounds & ounces to kilos and grams;

2.7 Kg light malt
340g crystal 20 (30 min)
225g carapils (30 min)
60g cascade (60 min)
60g kent golding (10min)

My question is....what amounts of grain and hops would I need if I want to use a base of a Coopers Pale Ale kit and 1 Kg LDM, rather than 2.7 Kg of unhopped malt.

I am thinking less grain and less hops due to the flavour and bitterness that will already exist in the kit.

would 100g each of crystal and carapils do?
E

I would personally drop all the extract and UP the grain. I guess it depends whether you want a beer you really enjoy or just one you fermented

cheers

Darren

 

[phonos]

I know I'm not an expert with mashing/partials, but I'm not sure you would want more than 560g of crystal/caramel grain - surely that would make it way too sweet? I made a very bitter Pale Ale once (~70IBU with PoR hops) with 500g of crystal grain, and even in that the crystal gave it quite a sickly sweetness...

 

[rough60]

Here's a one I've made a while ago, came out pretty good for a can:

1.70 kg Coopers Pale Ale
1.50 kg Coopers Light Extract
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt (130.0 EBC)
0.05 kg Choc Chit (800.0 EBC)
12.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (30 min boil)
8.00 gm Cascade [6.70%] (30 min boil)
6.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (15 min Steep)
14.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min Steep)

Boil the 12g NB and 8g Cascade with the light extract
Steep grains with 6g NB and 14g Amarillo

US-56 yeast

Cheers.

edit: typo

 

[simpletotoro]

2.7 Kg light malt
340g crystal 20 (30 min)
225g carapils (30 min)
60g cascade (60 min)
60g kent golding (10min)

My question is....what amounts of grain and hops would I need if I want to use a base of a Coopers Pale Ale kit and 1 Kg LDM, rather than 2.7 Kg of unhopped malt.

I am thinking less grain and less hops due to the flavour and bitterness that will already exist in the kit.

would 100g each of crystal and carapils do?
and what about 20g cascade for 20 min, 10g Kent goldings for 10 min, and 10g kent golding at flame out for 10 min?

hi...
i think your close to the money ....this is what i'd do....
1x tin coopers apa
1kg LDM or 750g LDM ,250g dextrose,250 g maltodextrin
250g-300 crystal (the lighter the better )
150g carapils

both crystal and carapils steeped 70-80/c 1/2 hour then strained and boiled for 1/2 hour along with 5-10 g of a high alpha hop say POR or green bullet just to up the bitterness a little then add 250g LDM then go on to hops sked

i think your spot on with your hop skeds...unless you want to bugger off the cascade and go with ALL kent golding ...(i only say this cause i use heaps of cascade and sometimes feel like a different taste ...)
if you were to go all kent golding i go with this sked..

15g kent golding @20 mins
15g kent golding @10 mins
10g kent golding @1 mins

on the yeast debate i use us-56 mostly but find safale-04 good for darker beer type...
cheers simpletotoro

 

[Trent]

If yer gonna go with all EKG, then you may aswell turn it into an english pale completely and use S-04 for the yeast. If ya want it as a classic style APA, then you should use cascade as the finishing and dry hop, and probably something higher in AA and more nuetral, like Norther Nbrewer for bittering, and ferment with US56. Cause you are already adding a pre bittered kit, though, you could probably just boil the extract for 20 mins, throw in 30g cascade at 15 mins left in boil, and throw in another 30g at flameout. When I used to brew extract, I would put my hops in a section of clean stocking, give em heaps of room, cause they swell up alot, and that way you can just pull em out before you transfer to the fermenter.
All the best
Trent

 

[ernie]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I am humbled by your interest in my plight. Will digest everything that's been said and come up with something....might even post the results - if they're post-worthy :chug:

why not give the full extract recipe a go?

I've been teetering on the brink of doing an extract brew for a while. Had a question mark over the cost....I'm happy to pay $30-odd for a brew but would baulk a bit at $40. Rough extract cost would be $24 for 2 cans of malt extract, $12 for hops (say 120g), $4 for saf yeast, $5 for grain - that's $45. Where as a K&K variant would be $10 for the Coopers PA, $9 for LDM, $5 for hops (say 50g), $2 for the grain and $4 for the saf - $30

I actually had it in my mind to do a K&K along the lines of the suggestions made here, and concurrently do the extract recipe mentioned on tbh, and do a comparison between the two. Probably not really comparing apples and apples but I reckon I'd get a decent idea of whether its worth making the transition to extract.

If you are after some good hops and advice, head in and see Mark at Marks Home Brew in Islington

Trent, I am from Lake Macquarie so I've been going to the HBS at charlestown. Not for much longer though....the range, freshness and advice is lacking....somtimes I think I know more than the HBS dude. :blink:

thanks again everyone
E

 

[RobboMC]

I'm sure I read somewhere that too much crystal can make the beer sweet??

That's why you add the extra hops, to balance the sweetness of the grains.
And yes, I don't use a whole KG of crystal, just half a KG and half a KG of something else.

 

[discoloop]

I've been teetering on the brink of doing an extract brew for a while

Just bear in mind that a kit is a tin of hopped extract. If you're steeping grains, adding hops and choosing your own yeast, you are already an extract brewer. It just so happens that some of that extract is already hopped.

I prefer dealing with unhopped extract because it's a tad easier to control what you're doing, but you can't argue with the cost of a kit! Actually, I find it quite annoying it's cheaper to get hopped than unhopped extract. You'd think it would be the other way around!