Am I staling my beer?

[mtb]

Alrighty, I'll expand that two-miniBIAB test.
In addition to brewing one with town water and another with rain, both FVs sealed;
If both batches taste identical (or at least good) from the fermenters, I'll keg one with a perc-cleaned/sanitised keg, and keg another with a StarSan'd one.

 

[mtb]

What do they say?

The packet's at home, but their website describes it as appropriate for use in beer lines, which implies that it doesn't have much effect on flavour.
This is a fantastic product for use on all brewery equipment including beer lines

 

[Dae Tripper]

Perc is not a sanatiser, it cleans my making oxygen, hence an oxidizing agent. Pretty sure your ruining your beer buy leaving so much behind.

 

[tj2204]

The packet's at home, but their website describes it as appropriate for use in beer lines, which implies that it doesn't have much effect on flavour.
This is a fantastic product for use on all brewery equipment including beer lines

I certainly wouldn't use it as a no rinse sanitiser, awesome for soaking filthy fermenters in.

Starsan all the way for sanitising.

 

[mtb]

Perc is not a sanatiser, it cleans my making oxygen, hence an oxidizing agent. Pretty sure your ruining your beer buy leaving so much behind.

Shit!

At least I was right on the oxidisation hunch...

 

[timmi9191]

Thats not how i would interpret it.

I think most would agree that perc, brewery cleaner or other perc blends for cleaning, rinse and then star san or other branded no rinse santisers for santising is best practice.

 

[Dae Tripper]

So there was a few posts before mine went up. Don't do a perc keg again you will just fukc the beer in the ass by doing so.

 

[mtb]

I was so intent on referencing the packaging description of perc that I managed to miss this crucial bit;
Sodium percarbonate gradually decomposes into not-toxic, environmentally safe, food grade elements. It decomposes into oxygen, sodium carbonate & water.

So of bloody course my beer is getting oxidised, my cleaner literally produces oxygen, and I introduced it while kegging.
Thanks all for your input and assistance, I'm still gonna run my little mini-BIAB tests and report back here, but perc is definitely looking like the culprit. I'll be sure to rinse and then StarSan before kegging.

 

[Dan Pratt]

you found the reason, dont waste more beer on proving it...lol

clean with sod perc, rinse with water (twice hot/cold), add starsan, shake, empty starsan and fill with C02.

 

[n87]

There are some here that have a specific keg full of starsan (diluted) that they transfer to a clean (and rinsed) keg with CO2, then fill the empty (except CO2) keg with beer

Just 2 more steps to add to your kegging routine.

 

[Rocker1986]

Well technically it doesn't have to be rinsed off given that what it decomposes into is completely harmless, however, in a keg I would be (and do myself) rinsing it out after running the solution through the line/tap. The line/tap then gets rinsed with hot water as well. The only difference is that I do this as soon as the keg blows dry and then it's just stored empty but pressurised with CO2 until I need it again. At that point the pressure is bled, and it is treated with Starsan before being purged as best I can and filled. Never have any problems with stale beers or hop aroma/flavour disappearing other than the normal gradual decline over time.

In a fermenter you could get away without rinsing it because the yeast would just use the oxygen but in a keg this isn't the case so yeah... I'm with the rinse off crew too.

 

[jyo]

Yep, kettle of boiling water in your keg after the perc, run through the out post. Purge with co2 down the out post, and I think you'll solve your problem mate. Skip the starsan in the keg if you want, it's not necessary after a boiling water rinse.

 

[Coodgee]

shit dude, I rinse my kegs 3 or 4 times after soaking in napisan... think you've learned the hard way on this one! But I've learned something here too. seems people are doing a hot water rinse. I'll have to start doing that.

More broadly on the topic of hop aroma: I think it's a delicate thing. All stages of the process have to be done just right and with a delicate hand to keep the smell in the keg. Especially during transfer, but also around keeping your lines clean etc.

 

[jyo]

Yes, should've mentioned I rinse the perc with cold water with hose a few times before the boiling water.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

that's pretty much what I do, although I add the kettle 1L at a time, shaking after each.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

This is a really good read, regarding dry hopping and the possible sources of oxidation and how to avoid it:
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

 

[mtb]

This is a really good read, regarding dry hopping and the possible sources of oxidation and how to avoid it:
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

Well there goes my afternoon..

 

[droid]

mtb can you summarise what you learn from that link this arvo for us? No sense having multiple afternoons wasted eh?

 

[mtb]

Plenty of syllables

 

[mtb]

I learned that another method of reducing oxidisation is to add dry hops prior to FG, that way the dissolved oxygen introduced by the hop pellets/flowers is consumed by the still-active yeast. Makes a lot of sense.

Interesting quote from one of the top brewers in reference to the assumption that CO2 will form a protective "blanket" over beer; "Small differences in temperature create convective currents that mix gases. It may be true that there may be a greater concentration of carbon dioxide at the bottom of the vessel, but there is still more than enough oxygen in most cases of simple blanketing to oxidize beer."