All Grain Pilsener

[marky_mark]

Hey Guys,

Looking to brew my first all grain with a nice pilsener recipe. G&G is my local HBS and I have some queries as to the differences in price between the Joe White, Weyermann and Powells Malts. Also what is the difference between Australian and Imported grain interms of quality, level of modification... overall what brand is most suitable for my pilsener.

This is the recipe...

3Kg Pilsner Malt (or Two-Row Lager Malt... much difference?)
500g Munich Malt
200g CaraPils Malt

Hopped as per extract recipes with a bucket load of Saaz

I've made myself a nice Mash/Lauter Tun using a 25L Willow cooler and some copper for a manifold. What mashing schedule should I employ... will single temp infusion cut it or should I be looking at doing a two rest mash.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Cheer,
Mark

 

[Gough]

Big questions there Mark - talk about opening a can of worms :lol:

Of the three malt brands you list I have used Weyermann and Joe White, but not Powell's. Weyermann Pils and Joe White Pils are both excelent choices for this style in my opinion, and I've heard mainly good things about the Powell's, so you can't really go wrong with any of those Pils malts as your base malt. The Weyermann Pils is probably a little more 'authentic' being a Euro malt, but if this is your first go I can heartily recommend JW Export Pilsner - the stuff almost mashes itself Again though, not a real lot of difference in terms of technique required, just up to you whether you go German or Aussie really. The Weyermann has the edge in flavour in my opinion, but is a little more expensive. The JW is a very good malt and as I said, very easy to work with.

As for whether to employ a step or decoction mash first up, or whether to stick with single infusion, I'd recommend single infusion mashing especially if it is your first go just to keep things simpler. THe JW Pils and the standard Weyermann Pils are both good for single infusion mashing in my experience. I'm assuming the Powell's is as well, but can't speak from experience with that malt. By all means have a go at decoction mashing if you are really keen, but the jury is out whehter it is necessary with well modified malts anyway, and first time in I'd be more worried about everything else running smoothly. Your malt profile with these malts will be fine. THere is also a Weyermann Bohemian Pils malt you can get that in my opinion requires a step mash, but others have used a single infusion mash with good results. See the recent 'Pilsner advice' thread from yesterday for more on this malt.

As for recipes, it is up to you. What final volume are you looking at?? You list 3.7kg of grain there which is probably a little light on for a 23litre batch, but maybe you are targetting a smaller batch. Personally I wouldn't use quite as high a percentage of Munich in a Czech style Pilsner, but it is up to you. I'm sure it'll be a lovely, malty drop as is.

Anyway, good luck with it and hope that helps.

Shawn.

 

[T.D.]

For your first AG brew I'd go with good old Joe White. Its a great quality product and is so easy! It has good modification levels etc too. Its a nobrainer kind of malt from my point of view. I have made a few lagers from it in my time using a single infusion mash and they have come out great. By all means try the other brands too, but for your first one, keep it simple and go for the good old stock standard stuff (btw, I'm not saying JW is "average", its just really easy malt to work with). Powells is good quality but some people have found it to be a little less modified (in effect anyway). I have a whole bag of Powells pils malt to get through and I'm planning a few nice hoppy Pilsners too. Can't wait.

 

[T.D.]

Oh, and the recipe looks nice, but as Shawn said, it might be a little light if its a standard size batch. I would bump up the pils malt to 4kg, but the munich and carapils look pretty good.

What sort of hopping schedule were you thinking of?

 

[marky_mark]

Thanks for the help Gough & TD,

I'm looking at 40g saaz pellets (3.3%AA) in first wort hop
40g saaz pellets at 30min
28g saaz plugs at 15min (4.0%AA)
28g saaz plugs at flameout

Cheers,

Mark

 

[neonmeate]

i would say that the imported pilsener malt is worth the extra $ - especially in a pilsener where you need some flavour from your base grain. in a beer with lots of specialty malts, or a funky yeast, the base grain's not so important. the imported stuff's not any "harder" to work with either. but that's just what i think - plenty of others are happy with JW.
the difference in malt character between Urquell or Bitburger and James Squire or St Arnou pilseners is plain as day for me.

 

[Jazzafish]

A friend of mine emailed powells about mashing techniques, in the reply it was mentioned that a protien rest is recomended, and I think he mentioned something about an alpha and beta conversion. I guess they were goining on about this stuff from http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-2.html

If you use less well-modified malts, such as German Pils malt, a multi-rest mash will produce maltier tasting beers although they need a protein rest to fully realize their potential. In this case the mash schedule suggested by Fix is 50 - 60 - 70C, again with half hour rests. The rest at 50C takes the place of the liquefaction rest at 40C and provides the necessary protein rest. This schedule is well suited for producing continental lager beers. These schedules are provided as guidelines. You, as the brewer, have complete control over what you can choose to do. Play with the times and temperatures and have fun.

But if you ask me, although multi-rest mashing is fun, it can be a pain in the ass! Depends if you enjoy the extra work load. Also if you have the gear/temp erature calculators/water on hand.

Joe White malts are more modified than powells, which means you can get great results from just a single infusion mash of 64 to 66*C. Much easier...

I haven't had enough experience with Weyermann to comment on it, but keep in mind you don't really know how fresh it is being imported. Fair to say the local stuff may be fresher? Again, my lack of experience can't proove it.

I also agree with the others that you should reduce the munich & up the pilsner. If it was me I'd put a little torrified wheat to be crazy like I am!

Cheers,
Jarrad

 

[Darren]

i would say that the imported pilsener malt is worth the extra $ - especially in a pilsener where you need some flavour from your base grain. in a beer with lots of specialty malts, or a funky yeast, the base grain's not so important. the imported stuff's not any "harder" to work with either. but that's just what i think - plenty of others are happy with JW.
the difference in malt character between Urquell or Bitburger and James Squire or St Arnou pilseners is plain as day for me.

[post="107138"][/post]​

I second neonmeate's opinion
Weyermann pilsner is the best pils malt in Australia if not the world. Once you have tried it you won't go back.

cheers
Darren

 

[Darren]

I haven't had enough experience with Weyermann to comment on it, but keep in mind you don't really know how fresh it is being imported. Fair to say the local stuff may be fresher? Again, my lack of experience can't proove it.

[post="107173"][/post]​

[/quote]


Jarrad


Weyermann malt is as fresh as it comes. It is iso 9001 accredited (Rigorous quality control) and each bag is embossed with a batch number so it is easy to check it out
Try it you won't be disappointed.

cheers
Darren

 

[warrenlw63]

You spieler Darren.

To quote Victor Kiam... You liked it so much you bought the company. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Weizguy]

You spieler Darren.

To quote Victor Kiam... You liked it so much you bought the company. :lol:

Warren -

[post="107191"][/post]​

Woohoo, Victor Kiam. Been a while since I've heard of him. Reminds me that the TV channels were pumping Yank-made TV ads into us all the way back then, and it's not just a modern phenomenon.
* (pedantic edit) BTW, shouldn't you use quotation marks when quoting someone? *

As far as malts go, though, I'm with Gough. Don't think I've ever used Powells malt unless it was from the lhbs when I first started mashing, and didn't ask what the brand was, or unless the ESB Fresh Worts have used Powells.

I reckon that JW pils is plenty malty, but for a better Euro malt flavour, do the Weyermann challenge. Don't worry about alleged "freshness". Test it and let your tastebuds tell U if its good.
First time out, I'd do the JW pils (or Powells) and see how it appeals. Next time, after practicing with the Oz malt, I'd use the Weyermann and compare the two beers.

I must admit that the first time I used the Weyermann, it was in a Czech pils, with a triple decoction. No point sampling the beer and then wishing that U did it,...just go for it. Wasn't too painful either, just a little lengthy... who cares! Result: very satisfied with the taste. Did I remember to say "very"?

It's up to you, but you will prob be happier if you keep it simple for the first mash. Put the attention into cleanliness, efficiency, correct temps and avoiding hot wort aeration, and you'll be happy enough.

Cheerz and best of luck

Seth

 

[warrenlw63]

Weyermann pilsner is the best pils malt in Australia if not the world. Once you have tried it you won't go back.

cheers
Darren

[post="107177"][/post]​

I'm going to start a row here. I reckon Weyermann is a very *close* second.

Hoepfner was a little bit better. Note: personal preference only. Don't want to start any malt embargos to my brewery. h34r:

Weiz. Probably haven't heard of Victor Kiam for a while because he has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!

Thankfully he's not a parrot. :lol:

Warren -

 

[stephen]

He's just pining for the fjords of Finland...