All-brett Fermentation

[pmolou]

i'v been reading babblebelt and heard of them doing all brett fermentations and apparently it gives completly differant characteristics apparently pineapple like and ferments within 6-8 weeks.

Anyone done one would be interesting/ know anything about it

 

[Adamt]

Brettanomyces is a very hardy strain and will permanently embed itself into any piece of brewing gear it gets close to. I would suggest using an old fermenter which will not be used for anything else you don't want Brett in, and fermenting in an area away from your other brewing gear/fermenters.

Search for things like "plambic", "lambic" and "turbid mash" and you should find a bit of reading.

 

[Stuster]

I don't think there's any need to send the brett fermentation to a different area. It's not really going to sneak out of its fermenter, open up all the nearby fermenters and jump in. If you are using plastic, I'd say that using that fermenter only for wild beers in the future might be a good idea. I was listening to the famous Jamil's show on Lambics yesterday and he was saying he uses the same fermenters for wild beers then other beers (and the same kegs) but he does use glass and didn't recommend doing that with plastic. Different hoses for transfers are probably a good idea too. On the other hand, there is so much of this stuff in the air all around us that if you can't get rid of it then your cleaning/sanitation regime might not be all it could be. I guess playing it safe is worth it.

I've used it a little and have big plans for making a range of wild beers this year. Never used just brett though it does seem it's fine. I'm pretty sure neonmeate has so you could drop him a pm if he doesn't comment.

You could also look at a blogspot on just this topic here or the madfermentationist (Oldsock on the brewboard) has loads of stuff on his experiments with brett here. HTH.

 

[warrenlw63]

pmolou

Don't quote me on this but I think the strain they use for 100% brett fermentations is anomalus. By all accounts it will ferment at a similar rate to regular yeast. I know that neonmeate has some experience with this type of thing. Maybe drop him a line?

If you do go ahead keep everybody if not at least me posted. I'd be highly interested to hear your findings.

Edit: Stu you beat me to the Neonmeate bit.

Edit edit: Thaks for that link Stu! Awesome.

Warren -

 

[pmolou]

yer i'm not worried about brett getting into my other gear as had a lambic next to all my bottles and fermentors and never had a problem, i'mm assuming yeast can't become airborne haha... yer i'm more just interested at the moment than actually planning on doing it trying to gather all the info from people who've actually done it first... I'm not patient i usually start drinking my beers 4 days after bottling
but if any AHB have info please post

 

[neonmeate]

(Scene: an abandoned graveyard. Night. Lightning flashes in distance and thunder rolls. The earth starts to shudder. Cracks begin to form on the ground. Bits of dirt fly up into the air. A hoof appears, reaching up from beneath the surface, then another. A lightning flash reveals a frightening sight: a tapir, covered in wet earth, worms, and horribly decomposed).
NEONMEATE: (booming) Who utters my name? Who is it that wakes me from my sepulchral slumber?

yes it's true i brewed with brett anomalus in primary for a berliner weisse - i then added lacto (from yoghurt). it was interesting, anomalus does taste very pineappley. Unfortunately one of the hazards of brett brewing (and i know there's lots of info on how to avoid this in wild brews and on babble belt) is that it can produce acetic acid. And when it's your primary yeast that can be quite significant. It did settle down with about 8 months, but still had a bit of acetic flavour. So if youre going to brett-only brew then beware of letting it have too much headspace in the fermenter. i think. im not fully up on the chemistry of it - best to do some reading. but the acetic acid thing will probably stop me doing it again - im more than happy with the contribution brett makes as a secondary yeast.

 

[kabooby]

Russian Rivers Sanctification is 100% Brett with a blend of Brett Lambicus and Brett Bruxellensis. I have a vial of each and I am going to ferment a Belgian Dark Strong with them today.

I think the trick to avoiding the Acetic acid is to avoid aeration of the wort. I don't think Brett needs the oxygen like Sach strains.

This is theory only at this point. I will be able to verify in a few weeks, or maybe months :unsure:

Kabooby

 

[pmolou]

keep us posted kabooby sounds like an interesting beer...
and thanks for the info neonmate

 

[kook]

I've done two all-brett fermentations. They worked pretty much like sacc, just slower.

You just need a huge starter. I went from 2L into a 10L batch at 1.040. The yeast cake from that was then used in a full 23L batch of stronger blonde ale.

I found they both took off really quickly, working through the fermentation really quick. They then slowed down like a saison yeast. I just left them for a month. They also took a while to flocculate.

This was all with WYeast Brett Lambicus.

 

[Stuster]

And how did they work out flavour-wise, kook? Pineapple? Barnyard?

 

[kook]

And how did they work out flavour-wise, kook? Pineapple? Barnyard?

Surprisingly bland! :lol:

I didn't get big pineapple in mine. The typical barnyard brett is definitely there, but it's more prominent in the aroma. It doesn't have that "earthiness" in the flavour. There were some nice pear and peach like esters though. Both were pretty balanced and very similar in flavour.

If I were to do it again - I'd use multiple strains of brett for a bit more complexity.

 

[kabooby]

Hi Kook,

Do you think the blandness came from using a starter. Maybe with a lower pitching rate you may have got more yeast character :unsure:

Kabooby

 

[kook]

Hi Kook,

Do you think the blandness came from using a starter. Maybe with a lower pitching rate you may have got more yeast character :unsure:

Kabooby

My understanding (from the Babblebelt, Russian River & WYeast) is without a lager-size pitch Brett just won't take off.

 

[pmolou]

i believe that many things affect the flavour in brett (from reading purely never made an all-brett)
but perhaps amount of aeration, headspace, pitching rate, temperature, the actuall recipe/ingrediants and the consistancy
seems like one would need to do alot of experimenting and have alot of patience to perfect an all-brett beer, kinda seems like unknown/ uncommon territory

 

[Ross]

My understanding (from the Babblebelt, Russian River & WYeast) is without a lager-size pitch Brett just won't take off.

Interesting...I thought that Brett once in your brewery was a ******* to remove & would kick off with just a trace?
Having tried some of your great sour beers Kook, I really must get my finger out & try brewing some.

cheers Ross

 

[///]

I can add little, but suggest you look to Dr K for some advise. As one put it, he 'introduced Brett and other wierd yeast to an otherwise sleepy brewing community in the ACT'....

http://shallowthroatbrewing.info/pb/wp_3f2...p_3f2bfc72.html

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Have you ever noticed that breweries that make these styles of beer usually only make this style of beer.Got to wonder?
GB

 

[kook]

Interesting...I thought that Brett once in your brewery was a ******* to remove & would kick off with just a trace?

Not that it kicks off - more waits for something to eat. If it is given some nutrient it'll start growing again, just very slowly. I could be wrong though! Thats what everything I've read recommends though (lager sized starter).

If it gets into your brewery it's a bugger to get out, and the brett will grow and start fermenting the beer long after the primary fermentation is complete. Can end up with batches bottled that continue to attenuate unpredictably.

 

[Chad]

I don't think Brett needs the oxygen like Sach strains.

This is what I am currently having issues trying to find out.
I have a packet of Brett Lambicus which I am wanting to add to the end of a near finished ferment. But I am trying to decide whether to rack the beer to a keg or another plastic fermenter. In the keg there is no oxygen getting in, but in the plastic there is. If I don't find an answer soon, it will go in the keg and find out for myself.

I have a feeling that Brett is aerobic and thus needs a small amount of oxygen to do its thing. Then I can transfer into a keg to slow it right down, or into the fridge to stop it.

Ed: I spent ages last night researching but was unable to pull up any information. Had another shot tonight and came across this thread. I don't know how credible the info is and am yet to cross reference it with other info that I might find, but is the best I can come across for the moment. What I found interesting was adding the Brett to the primary due to the advantages of the autolyzed yeast.

Use of a single vessel during all stages of fermentation allows the [Brettanomyces] to metabolize nutrients present in autolyzed yeast. Brettanomyces will feed on these cells during the later phases of fermentation, when the supply of dextrins has been exhausted. Brettanomyces will grow and produce their by-products without autolyzed yeast, just not as effectively.

 

[kabooby]

Hey Chad,

I think you are right about the aeration. A lot of people have always added Brett at the end of fermentation when there is little to no o2 present yet it still does its thing.

I would put your beer in a keg instead of a fermenter. For long periods you don't want o2 getting to the beer. That is why Brett forms a pelicle. Plastic would allow to much o2 in.

Make sure you post back with your results

Kabooby