Ageing Beer, The Ideal Time?

[mick8882003]

Ok I have been thinking this through for some time now... Ageing beer, how long?

Let me set out my brewing ways. Currently I intend on brewing a standard coopers for quaffing (personal) purposes and having a few nice brews (think good ag's) ready for mates. (Well to impress really.)
But the thing that has got me stumped is how long I should age the good brews, not the quaffing brews, I'm not fussy on getting them perfect.

Well I've read you can age beer for 25+ years and still get good product, so I guess my question is, how long can you age that (good) beer for and is it worth it?

The thing that annoys me is I keg, and to age properly is a decent outlay in kegs.

 

[clean brewer]

The best thing ive been told about beer is that "Beer is meant to be drunk fresh" and if you need to age it to mellow it out, it hasnt been brewed correctly...

On the other hand, if you were to brew a beer that is meant to sit for a while, then brew something like that to age..

A few months back, I came up with an idea similar to Oliver and Geoffs Millenium Ale Project, but instead of brewing someting to see how it goes over 100years, brew something(Barleywine) that I can bottle and drink 1 per year over 25 years..

Now that I am AGing, I will get onto that and get it underway,... Nice little project to report on for the next 25 years...

Cheers

http://homebrewandbeer.com/millenniumale.html

 

[buttersd70]

It comes down to several things, such as the method employed to brew it, and what the beer actually is. Kit beer takes time for the flavours to mellow, and improves with age. I used to leave it for 1 week for each degree of final gravity.....ie 10 to 12 weeks in the bottle. And that was after 1-2 weeks of cold conditioning. Extract beers made with fresh hops and steeped grains I used to leave for about half that.

Grain brewing, on the other hand, is different. Because the ingredients are fresh, not processed, the age comes down to the beer type (assuming it is, of course, correctly brewed). Beers like wheats, or english styles (for the most part) are meant to be drunk young. More robust ones like IPA, barleywines etc benefit with a bit of conditioning. More aggressively flavoured beers, like hoppy APA's for example, also benefit from some conditioning....but in real terms, we're talking in terms of weeks for the most part, not months or years, although big and bold beers may benefit from longer storage. I think that for ales, in short, the more agressive and robust the flavourings, the more time is required for it to settle and mellow.

Lagers are a differant kettle of fish, and benefit more from longer storage periods, cold, ranging from several weeks to several months.

So theres no real hard and fast answer other than it depends on what the beer is. But if they are 'normal' beers (not big imperial stouts, barleywines or wotnot), a couple of weeks cold conditioning out of primary, then a week in the keg carbing with the let 'er sit method, should have them at an age where anything further than that is going to have minimal impact, that your mates probably wouldn't pick up on, anyway. Unless its a wheat, or a standard or best bitter....then just get it on young. one of the reasons that I tend not to brew too far ahead.

 

[staggalee]

Really nothing to add or disagree with that-good reply, as allways. :icon_cheers:

stagga.

 

[newguy]

As buttersd70 mentioned, it depends on the beer. Weizens in particular really go downhill with age. English bitters and Scottish lights should also be consumed young. Lagers benefit from a lot of cold conditioning, as do Alts and Kolsch. There are other types that undergo sometimes dramatic changes in character....BWs, Old Ales and Russian Imperial Stouts definitely get better with age (up to a point), but sometimes the lighter gravity or lighter flavoured beers do as well. I've also found that quite heavily hopped beers benefit from cold conditioning as their hop character softens. As your brewing experience grows, you'll get a better appreciation for how age changes a beer.

 

[BOG]

Question:

Do you count kegged beer , gassed and in the fridge in your cold conditioning times?
Does it make any difference to leaving in a cube in the fridge?

I start sampling the beer at 1 week, and then as it gets to about 3 weeks it got to whatever flavour it was going to get. Some are still going from the keg 3 months later but the flavour is stable from about 3 weeks.

BOG

 

[boingk]

BOG - pretty much what I've found, what a beer tastes like at 3 to 4 weeks is pretty much where things are going to be grounded at for the lighter styles. Best ageing beer I've had so far has been a porter, which was very average up until around 3 months. After that it was great, and lasted until about 5 months I think at which stage it had done all the improving I think it could do. I also ran a stout that improved significantly with age, on the same [more or less] schedule as the porter.

Then, of course, lagers come into the equation and things flip.

Cheers - boingk

 

[Bribie G]

Just to test some comments I made on another thread I bought a sixpack of JSGA last week and worked my way through it (would have preferred a six of Melbourne Bitter but that's just my tastebuds). However one thing I did notice on the packaging was a statement of how fresh it is and should be drunk young. I also believe (or is this an urban myth?) That Little Creatures ales are trucked East in refrigerated transport and should also be drunk fresh.
And of course Fosters own website states that their general brews start to deteriorate the day they leave the brewery :unsure:

I believe that the idea of HB being kept for long periods is certainly a good idea for kits n bits up to a point and is more to do with mellowing out HB specific flavours from highly processed ingredients like LDME etc. as well as dropping out as much yeast and other haze crud as possible to allow the actual flavour of the beer to stand out. My most successful partials and kits to date have 'peaked' at six weeks and don't perceptably change week by week, but by week 12 onward have definitely jumped the shark at some point.

However with styles like UK beers apart from barley wines and strong stouts I find they taste spot on after two weeks and can even taste a bit 'past it' after a month. Of course I could prove myself dead wrong and am keeping 'archive' 750 mls to try at periods down the tracks.

 

[Trent]

I would have to suggest that LCPA should be drunk fresh, as in my experience, APA's (and any really hoppy beer) tends to be best within the first 4 weeks or so, and go downhill fairly quickly after that.
As others have stated, it depends on the beer, but as a general rule, the darker or stronger a beer, the better it will cellar for. The lighter alcohol, hoppy and paler beers (like wheats) tend to be best drunk in the first month to 6 weeks.
I have some 4.5% alcohol porters that are over 2 years old, and still drinking very well. Showing obvious signs of oxidation, but the light "sherry" and dark fruit flavours compliment the beer well.
Besides, now you have a great excuse to drink as much of your beer as you want - "just testing it for freshness, love".
All the best
Trent

 

[newguy]

Question:

Do you count kegged beer , gassed and in the fridge in your cold conditioning times?
Does it make any difference to leaving in a cube in the fridge?

Yes and I don't know as I've never cubed a beer before. I will usually keg & carbonate a batch, then leave it in the serving fridge for 4+ weeks before it goes into my drinking rotation. The exception is when I'm out of beer - it gets immediately consumed.

I think there's another factor at play in all of this: whether you filter or not. I don't filter (don't own one), and I suspect that the yeast, even at cold temps, continue to do something for a time. Commercial filtered beer doesn't improve with age unless it's something that needs a bit of a sherry like oxidative note. The commercial Belgians that are bottle conditioned seem to improve over time.

 

[Fermented]

I guess the only provisos are:

* Storage conditions (stable)
* No PET past six months or so (it is gas permeable).

For more complex brews the aging potential would be much better I guess.

Pretty much the same go as for wines. I opened a 96 Armagh the other day and after a decant and breathe it was awesome. Cracked another 96 (Grant Burge) a couple of days later and while nice, it didn't age as well as it's a far less complex work than Jim Barry's. Same region, bought the same day in 98 a the cellar door, stored under the same conditions - just varietal and wine maker's differences (and the other million or so variables).

Beer is more finicky - we have much less time in pre-fermentation preparation and much, much less time in fermentation. Winemakers have more room for error - we have virtually no margin for error comparatively.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[matt white]

I've found, without dissecting it too much, that the last beer of the keg is the best.

Probably a psychological thing though, rather than a scientific one.

I've done a grain to brain AG in 3 days and had a perfectly quaffable Aussie Pale Ale. Didnt mean it but thats what you get when you lazily cast fresh wort over whole trub of last brew.

Ive also drank a 5 year old extract attempt at stout, and it was as bad as it was the first day I made it, even though it won first prize at the local Ag Show after 4 years in the bottle.

Only the purists can tell a BIG difference in the fundamentals of the beer over time.

 

[marlow_coates]

I agree with a lot of the comments here regarding ageing.

First of all don't age past the 6 month mark with PET due to the oxygen permeability.

I use champagne bottles for any beer I plan on long storage. But glass bottles would be just as suitable.

In terms of styles for ageing I have found that Pale Ales are best fresh, as are wheat beers which I find deteriorate after a month or two.
Stouts and Porters have aged well for me, with one accidentally aged 2years (K+K) that was bloody awsome.

In the last few months my 'ageing cellar' project has started.
I am aiming for high alcohol 7% to 11% beers with solid body to them (after advice and reading of threads on this website)

I crack a stubby every month to educate myself and see how the beers are progressing. However with only 6 stubbies per brew with champagne bottles for the rest I will be out of taste tests and onto the bigger bottles by easter.

This is an ongoing project and if you have the space and the patience I reckon it is worth it.
The changes in my first 'project beer' have been huge in just 2 tastings. Can't wait for the 22nd Jan to keep trying. :icon_cheers:

PS records and tasting notes are important so that you can acurately monitor what is going on and to get usefull information for future beers.

 

[muckanic]

I find both Coopers Pale and Sparkling develop an unpleasant malty note with age (like around 6 months). No idea of why that might be. It's not like they are heavy in the aromatics department in the first place.

 

[shayne]

Anybody have experience with the Cooper European Lager? Coopers say at least 12 weeks in the bottle, be good to understand more on this topic, and why they specify it on this particular brew - i wondered if it was yeast (lager) related?