Achieving Low Srm With High Og

[Nick JD]

did you just use wheat malt and rice? dont you need malted barley to convert the wheat, and rice?

Lobo

Malted wheat has all the enzymes you need.

 

[lobo]

thanks, maybe im thinking of raw wheat


Lobo

 

[katzke]

did you just use wheat malt and rice? dont you need malted barley to convert the wheat, and rice?

Lobo

Malted wheat has a high conversion factor. As I recall it can be higher then malted barley. Dont remember the numbers right off.

 

[AndrewQLD]

That's an awesomely pale beer. What's your grist and OG, if I may ask?

Thanks Kai, No trade secrets here it's actually a little paler in life, I can't take beer photos very well at all.
I seem to get very good efficiency when using rice, probably 2-3 points above normal, no idea why.
The hardest thing I've found with these types of beers is getting the hop balance right, too much and the bitterness is harsh too little and the malty/rice flavors dominate too much.

Andrew


Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 2.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 kg Pilsner Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.Grain 66.04 %
1.80 kg Rice, long grain (1.0 SRM) Grain 33.96 %
35.00 gm Hallertauer Tradition [6.50 %] (60 min) (Hops 26.3 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.22 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 3.0 days) Misc
2.00 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs European Lager II (Wyeast Labs #2247) Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Pilsner Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5.30 kg
----------------------------
Pilsner Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
5 min Mash In Add 21.51 L of water at 44.8 C 42.0 C
10 min Protien Rest Add 9.22 L of water at 90.1 C 55.0 C
60 min Sacch Rest Heat to 62.0 C over 10 min 62.0 C
15 min Sach Rest Heat to 72.0 C over 10 min 72.0 C
10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Other things that could help, are worrying a bit more than usual about HSA - whether you think HSA affects your beer quality or not, one thing it does affect is beer colour. So... be especially careful not to splash, over stir etc etc

You could tone down your boil a bit too - shorter, less vigorous. Should be able to get away with a bit less if you are using a decent whack of rice adjunct... lower protein levels in a high adjunct wort.

Cool straight away - no No-Chilling and no lengthy hot whirlpool rests etc - boil over, chilling on.

Stuff like that could knock out an ebc point or three and at this light a beer that'll make a visible difference.

Also - Yeast choice. Different yeasts strip colour out of the beer at different rates. The wine guys know about this stuff because generally they are trying to avoid it... pilsner brewers try to encourage it. I don't know which strains do it "best" but I reckon an e-mail to wyeast or whitelabs might yield results. Or simply choose a traditional pilsner strain... don't go with something they usually use for O'fests or Bocks... go with one of the ones specifically used for German Pilsners... or maybe American Pilsners. The really light coloured ones.

Actually, I just flipped through MJ's Great Beer Guide (lots of Beer Porn pics) and the very lightest beer was Tsingtao .. so thumbs up for rice use. Apart from that - the pilsners varied up and down from nearly as pale as the adjunct beer to definite golden - but consistently very light, every time... were the Kolsches. So, considering that a kolsch uses pretty much 100% pils malt... maybe a kolsch yeast does a good job of colour stripping. And if you ferment em cold they make a pretty good pseudo lager too. Might be worth a try.

TB

 

[MVZOOM]

So it's straight rice, just milled normally?

 

[A3k]

So it's straight rice, just milled normally?

Just get rice, cook it till gluggy, and add that.

Edit: add rice and all to the mash. Can use it for a temp step aswell.

 

[Pete2501]

Just get rice, cook it till gluggy, and add that.

I was a bit confused by this at first but it seems to be the case.

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...arch_Conversion

 

[Fourstar]

I was a bit confused by this at first but it seems to be the case.
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...arch_Conversion

Yep! Simple simon.

 

[MVZOOM]

Just get rice, cook it till gluggy, and add that.

Edit: add rice and all to the mash. Can use it for a temp step aswell.

Ok, what happens to the starch in the boil or do you rinse the cooked rice thoroughly? Sorry for the questions, never mashed rice before.

Cheers - Mike

 

[praxis178]

Ok, what happens to the starch in the boil or do you rinse the cooked rice thoroughly? Sorry for the questions, never mashed rice before.

Cheers - Mike

I believe it was meant to mean that you add the cooked rice to the mash, where you could add it hot, and use the extra energy to raise the temp when going up to the next rest temp.

Once rice (or any starch for that matter) is taken above it's hydrolisation temp all the starch is now available for the enzymes to chop up into useful sized bits, and boiling till gluggy will certainly do that. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

[MVZOOM]

Ok cool, I went to the web and did a bit of research and it's the starch that has the sugar (durr!) so obvisously washing aint a good move. So much so that one of the brewers in the US boiled his rice for 30 mins, then dumped the whole lot into a collander over the tun. Then he 'sparged' the rice sludge through the collander and, at the end of the boil had the correct OG. So he didn't risk a stuck sparge from the rice solids and got all sugars expected.

 

[Bribie G]

Polenta (maize which has had the husk and oily germ removed then milled) is also a good adjunct for pale but strong and flavourful beers. I'm drinking this one right now, it's a kiwi pale made with 4000 Galaxy, 500 Polenta and 300 sucrose in the boil. I think the sugaz have thinned it out a bit too much, will try going 1000 polenta next time I get my hands on some Galaxy

 

[Bribie G]

Different subject: Traditionally in the USA where they used (and still use) heaps of rice and maize in their mainstream beers, they would do the following: (Encyclopedia Britannica 1911)

In America the common system of brewing is one of infusion mashing combined with bottom fermentation. The method of mashing, however, though on infusion lines, differs appreciably from the English process. A very low initial heat—about 100 F. —at which the mash remains for about an hour, is employed. After this the temperature is rapidly raised to 153-156 F. by running in the boiling "cooker mash," i.e. raw grain wort from the converter. [ i.e. the rice and or maize that has been boiled to gelatinize it] After a period the temperature is gradually increased to about 165 F. The very low initial heat, and the employment of relatively large quantities of readily transformable malt adjuncts, enable the American brewer to make use of a class of malt which would be considered quite unfit for brewing in an English brewery.

In other words the six row barley malt used in those days. So yes you could do a stepped mash and raise the temperature to sach rest by using the heat of the boiling adjunct. Calculating it would be a ******* unless you are an engineer or a total lab nerd. Pity Butters isn't still around, he's probably got a spreadsheet.

 

[A3k]

I believe it was meant to mean that you add the cooked rice to the mash, where you could add it hot, and use the extra energy to raise the temp when going up to the next rest temp.

Yeah that's what i meant.

So yes you could do a stepped mash and raise the temperature to sach rest by using the heat of the boiling adjunct. Calculating it would be a ******* unless you are an engineer or a total lab nerd. Pity Butters isn't still around, he's probably got a spreadsheet.

I reckon you can do it as an infusion step in Beersmith. Calculated similarly to a decoction.

Edit: you'd probably need to mess around with the numbers a bit though. Removing the rice from the first step in beersmith, but including it in the infusion amount.

Cheers,
Al