Aaba 2004 Entries

[johnno]

Well i entered a local club brew comp down here in September. It was a Pale ale comp and I entered and APA. It came out in the top 10 which I was pretty pleased with.
I then entered exactly the same beer in the State comp in the APA category. Two of the three judges comments were that it was entered in the wrong category :blink: . Should have been entered in the English bitter category apparently.
I used only American hops and yeast. I suppose if there is a lot of good beers the judges may find it hard and I reckon a lot may come down to the day as well.
Which side they get out of bed etc.
Either way I think its a great thing to enter your beers and get the feedback.

cheers

 

[Darren]

Hey Snow,
I see your point. The problem is that it is incredibly diffficult to monitor if the same beer has been entered in both comps. Probably best to let people enter substitutes then you know no-one is cheating.
The crunch comes when YOU have to decide which beer is better, the original or the substitute.
The original has already won a prize. Will the substitute be better? In my experience replicating a beer let alone improving on a judges comments is extremely difficult.
darren

 

[AndrewQLD]

well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer.
It's a pity they didn't do it to all entries, and not just the really good ones .

I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer, after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they have qualified for.

Andrew

 

[Darren]

well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer.
It's a pity they didn't do it to all entries, and not just the really good ones .

I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer, after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they have qualified for.

Andrew

Andrew,
Here in SA the beers are warmed to room temp if they are good.
All good comps will warm the beer to detect flaws in the better examples.
Sometimes it is the only way to seperate the top 3 or so beers.
On that subject, anyone tried warm VB?

 

[big d]

its got me beat as to why you would bother warming up a beer.all beer no matter how good tastes bad warmed up.who drinks warm beer except judges. <_<
certainly not the majority of drinkers.
i reckon they should accept it for what its worth.

cheers
big d
who will certainly not become a beer judge if it means drinking warm beer.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Hi Darren,

Unfortunatley that wasn't the case in the Qld comp, the warming was done even if there was only one outstanding beer.

To be honest I don't think warming a beer for judging should be allowed. Beers are drunk cold and style guides even specify what temp they should be served at Ie 6c or 12c ect. You don't eat a meat pie at fridge temp just to see if it will taste any worse :huh: .

When you drink a beer you always chill it because beer was made to be drunk that way. As you said have you ever tried a VB warm, or for that matter any beer, they taste like sh@t, because there meant to be drunk cold.

Pretty soon us brewers will have to design our beers to be drunk warm so we can have a chance in the comps. But that makes me wonder, won't the then taste sh@t if there drunk cold? :blink:

 

[Darren]

well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer.
It's a pity they didn't do it to all entries, and not just the really good ones .

I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer, after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they have qualified for.

Andrew

Andrew,
Here in SA the beers are warmed to room temp if they are good.
All good comps will warm the beer to detect flaws in the better examples.
Sometimes it is the only way to seperate the top 3 or so beers.
On that subject, anyone tried warm VB?

Iam probably alone in this but I think if a beer cannot be drunk warm it is not a good beer.
The cold just hides many flaws in a beer.
Having said that I do love a cold lager
Darren

 

[Darren]

a lot may come down to the day as well.
Which side they get out of bed etc.

Also the beer that came before yours will impact on the judges impression

 

[AndrewQLD]

Darren said

Having said that I do love a cold lager

Thats because they taste like crap warm :lol:

Andrew

 

[Darren]

Darren said

Having said that I do love a cold lager

Thats because they taste like crap warm :lol:

Andrew

Should be drinkable warm or it is crap

 

[big d]

if it wasnt for my a/c room temp at the moment would be about 32 deg and then add the 95 + humidity.yep im sure gonna love a room temp beer. NOT

cheers in cold beers
big d

 

[Darren]

Hey again,
The warming of the beer by judges is to SMELL the fermentation by-products.
All tasting would be done when the beer was cold.
Darren

 

[jayse]

I think GLS explained all this warming up very well, i'll admit not seeing it for what it is when i first heard of it, but now given some more finer detials i can't see any problem with it at all.
If its a exeptional beer to start with on warming it will possibly only lose at most .5 of a point if any points at all, if the beers way down the list were warmed up of course they could lose a bit because even cold they weren't that great and certainly weren't contenders for a medal.

I don't see any unfairness in doing this at all. Like he said if any beers did actually lose any points at all, which it seems most didn't, 1 point was proberly the most. .
Its not like they put all the beers in the boot of a car and drove around townsville for 2 days before judging them just to check they were stable.

Anyway it may sound wierd to some this techniqie but i don't think its a big 'you can't do that' issue.

If anyone wants to read more on this read the craftbrewer digest, i think you'll find it is not a nasty nasty thing to do but actually not such a silly idea at all.

Really there is nothing to stop a judge cupping his hands around a glass to warm up the beer, we all do that sometimes, its why beers are sometimes served in certain types of glasses so you can either hold the stem to keep it cold or cup your hands around it to warm it up.

Anyway i'll have to agree with what darren has said here, read GLS's replies on the digest and i think the majority of people will understand there is nothing so bad about doing this.

Its to easy to just hear 'they warm the beer' and then start thinking thats just not right, i think you need to read the facts involved and understand it better.

Cheers Jayse--rambling again

 

[AndrewQLD]

Yeah I think Jayse is right, read the facts and make your own decisions.

I was one of the instigators of the discussions that went on at the craftbrewer discussion board in regards to the judging methods, so I think I do know most of the facts. But i still disagree with the method.

But hey thats only my opinion, and whose to say I am anymore knowlegable than anyone else.

I think I'll go have a nice COLD pils

Andrew

 

[jayse]

Hi andrew,
I agree you do have all the facts there so i would not even try to discredit why you think its not a good idea.
You have all the facts and have decided that it is still not right, no one can have a go at you for that.
keep up the great brewing.

Jayse

 

[Darren]

Andrew,
Worthwhile experiment is to allow a small amount of your beer to warm and compare the aromas with a cold one.
Another way to do it it to smell what is remaining in your glass after you have finished it. The malts and hops should smell fresh and clean

 

[AndrewQLD]

While I don't agree with the warming of judging samples, if the comp organisers wish to do it then that is how it is done.

My original post was more aimed at the fact that the beers were tatsed warm in the qld comp not just sniffed.

I agree with you about aromatics from the malt and hops ( and non desirables) are more easily detected after warming and that is fine.
But it is comments like this one below from a thread at the craftbrewer site that really makes me wonder if this judging method is any good.


quote<<<How do you know that you aren't creating the flaw by your mistreatment ?<<<<<<
GLS Replies
>>>Naturally one could never say "no-way". But evidence to date suggests "highly unlikely." The sample is heated imediately in front of the judging panel and sniffed/swallowed immediately. The idea is to lift tell tale smells. The simple fact that good crafted beers remain excellent, clean and easy drinking warm tell our judging panel that a good beer can survive this treatment.>>>

"heated immediately" and "sniffed swallowed" is not the judging method you described to me in your earlier thread

The warming of the beer by judges is to SMELL the fermentation by-products.

Darren,

But really the point is moot, we have to accept the method of judging in each comp as it is. and be gratefull if our beers stand up to the benchmark set by the judges.

I think I better not have another pils :blink: :lol:
Andrew

PS Don't take the above little tirade as a slurr on GLS, he,s a top bloke and I am sure he would read this with great interest.

 

[Darren]

<<simple fact that good crafted beers remain excellent, clean and easy drinking warm tell our judging panel that a good beer can survive this treatment.>>>

Andrew,
I think this is the most relevant point of the discussion.
Poorly crafted beer does not stand up well under these conditions
cheeers
darren (wish I could have a cold pils too!)

 

[Peter Wadey]

AndrewQLD wrote:

"I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you
the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer,
after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they
have qualified for."

G'day Andrew & Big d
This was not clearly stated in the rules last year, so I checked it out with Christoph.
Since it sounds like you are under the same impression as I was then, I'll pipe up, if not for your's, then for big 'ds info as well.

In order to enter 2 beers, you must have qualified twice.
eg getting a 2nd with my Chocolate Stout in the NSW Comp. did not entitle me to enter any more than 1 beer in the appropriate category in the Nationals.

Where the rule comes into play is in the unlikely event that a brewer wins all 3 places in a Category in a qualifying comp. It may also happen through some misalignment of State & National Comp. categories/ styles. In that case the brewer is only allowed a max. of 2 entries into that category in the Nationals.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Regards,
Peter
Eastwood, NSW

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thanks for clearing that up Peter, and your right, reading the entry rules does leave the wrong impression.
Regards
Andrew