A Return to Kits

[laxation]

The last few kits I have done (by using recipes off the Coopers site) have been amazing.

Some home brews I think I know what you're talking about, but using better malts, yeast and hops really makes a good beer.

The Thomas Coopers IPA is fantastic.

 

[PaulG79]

I believe it's the maltodextrin (corn syrup) in Coopers enhancer packs or other made up boosters for tin products that give that "tang" effect, sort of tinny feel. I don't get it with malts so I'm happy with that.

That's funny if it's true, cos the Bewitched is the only brew I've ever done without any additions (think the low volume of the craft tub means you don't need them as much) and it still had that taste.

The last few kits I have done (by using recipes off the Coopers site) have been amazing.

Some home brews I think I know what you're talking about, but using better malts, yeast and hops really makes a good beer.

The Thomas Coopers IPA is fantastic.

Good to know! That's my next brew I've heard the thing about the can leaching flavours too, but I don't know about that... I mean it doesn't happen with kidney beans so why would it happen with beer? The age is supposedly a big factor. I'm going to try with more yeast to start with and see how it goes.

 

[laxation]

I'd recommend trying a recipe from here if you're using a Coopers kit.
http://store.coopers.com.au/recipes/index/list/section/ale

I'm pretty keen to try this one http://store.coopers.com.au/recipes/index/view/id/102/

 

[PaulG79]

Looks good. I've got to learn what to do with hops. I'm keen to find a straight K+K setup that doesn't suck though, cos really once you're buying better yeast, hops, liquid malts, etc etc the sums stop adding up. I mean some of the sums I've done, you'd only be a few bucks shy of fresh wort prices, and I'd been hoping to keep the costs a bit lower than that. Mainly cos I'm not working at the moment, until next year. Hobbywise, there are so many interesting options I'm sure I'll end up doing some AG stuff eventually.

 

[jackgym]

A return to kits? I've never left them. :chug:
I reckon the so-called twang and "kit taste" is all in their imagination.
The only time I got that was when brewing years ago without temperature control.
Not sure if Coopers has a particular taste as against others because I've only brewed Coopers.
I mostly always brew ales and use US-05 yeast because the yeast on the tin is a bit short on quantity.
But Coopers yeast is fine if you use 2 packets. It's good quality.
The "straight off the shelf" kits I've brewed are Family Secret and Inkeepers Daughter.
Otherwise I use Australian Pale Ale as a base with added hops for different varieties of beer such as 150 Lashes..
Always use LDM (light dry malt) instead of brew enhancers for better body and taste.
Tomorrow I'm putting down a Brew A IPa which I haven't tried, but good reports from this forum.
The brews I've mentioned are from the newer Coopers kits except the APA. They cost a bit more but are well hopped.
I don't see any reason to move to all grain and be tied to the boiler for 4 hours when the kits are great beers.

By the way, I didn't get that gut by drinking pissy Corona or Crownies. :blink: :beerbang:

 

[Grott]

Like all things it depends on what finances are available, so if you can put up with " that taste" issue you have with kit beers - A tin, an enhancer, supplied yeast and you have a good brew (60 Stubbies) for less than 50 cents a stubby. So work out how much you want to spend on a brew and improve things accordingly.

 

[laxation]

Looks good. I've got to learn what to do with hops. I'm keen to find a straight K+K setup that doesn't suck though, cos really once you're buying better yeast, hops, liquid malts, etc etc the sums stop adding up. I mean some of the sums I've done, you'd only be a few bucks shy of fresh wort prices, and I'd been hoping to keep the costs a bit lower than that. Mainly cos I'm not working at the moment, until next year. Hobbywise, there are so many interesting options I'm sure I'll end up doing some AG stuff eventually.

http://store.coopers.com.au/recipes/index/view/id/47/

Try this one then. I have done it twice (once bottled, once kegged) and loved it both times!

Since then though, I've done my first 2 brews adding hops and really think this recipe would benefit from a bit of hops.

 

[PaulG79]

A return to kits? I've never left them. :chug:
I reckon the so-called twang and "kit taste" is all in their imagination.
The only time I got that was when brewing years ago without temperature control.
Not sure if Coopers has a particular taste as against others because I've only brewed Coopers.
I mostly always brew ales and use US-05 yeast because the yeast on the tin is a bit short on quantity.
But Coopers yeast is fine if you use 2 packets. It's good quality.
The "straight off the shelf" kits I've brewed are Family Secret and Inkeepers Daughter.
Otherwise I use Australian Pale Ale as a base with added hops for different varieties of beer such as 150 Lashes..
Always use LDM (light dry malt) instead of brew enhancers for better body and taste.
Tomorrow I'm putting down a Brew A IPa which I haven't tried, but good reports from this forum.
The brews I've mentioned are from the newer Coopers kits except the APA. They cost a bit more but are well hopped.
I don't see any reason to move to all grain and be tied to the boiler for 4 hours when the kits are great beers.

By the way, I didn't get that gut by drinking pissy Corona or Crownies. :blink: :beerbang:

Haha it is an epic gut. Your posts about K+K give me hope! And yeah to be honest, even my kits that were brewed without temp control in Brisbane in October were better than Corona or Crownies. Rank piss. Seriously don't understand why anyone likes Corona, it's probably one of the worst beers I've tasted.

I'm going to give the US-05 a go just because I'm not 100% sure I like the taste of the coopers yeast all that much. Not that it's bad, I just think it's what's causing the flavour I don't always love. It's not a kit thing I don't think cos I've got all the variables down. How long do you carb/cellar the brews for before you drink them? I normally have trouble waiting any longer than 10 days or 2 weeks, and I'm sure that doesn't help, although I've kept some for months in the past and I don't think it did much to improve them. I had a batch each of the lager, draught, and the Pale left before I moved house last year, didn't have anywhere to store them so I gave them all to a mate and helped him finish a bunch. They'd all been in the garage for a couple months and they all tasted the same, and not that great. No temp control tho so I put it down to that.

Thanks for the advice guys! Might give the liquid malt a go too, although I've read varying things about that.

 

[Grott]

Drinking your bottled brews 10 days to 2 weeks in is not really giving them a chance to mature/age and allowing yeast to settle out. This could be part of your taste problem and you can not really compare with those 2 months old as you stated temp control was poor. Try and build up some stock (it can be hard) but run 2 fermenters if you can a week apart so you have a batch each week. (leaving each for 14 days). When I bottled I found 6 to 8 weeks was a good time to drink most brews other than stouts, mature longer. Running 2 fermenters, you can get to this by putting a third aside and building stocks up.

Now that you have temp control make your suggested changes like yeast to see how things improve.

 

[jackgym]

Drinking your bottled brews 10 days to 2 weeks in is not really giving them a chance to mature/age and allowing yeast to settle out. This could be part of your taste problem and you can not really compare with those 2 months old as you stated temp control was poor. Try and build up some stock (it can be hard) but run 2 fermenters if you can a week apart so you have a batch each week. (leaving each for 14 days). When I bottled I found 6 to 8 weeks was a good time to drink most brews other than stouts, mature longer. Running 2 fermenters, you can get to this by putting a third aside and building stocks up.

Now that you have temp control make your suggested changes like yeast to see how things improve.

Agree, try and let your beer age for 4 weeks before drinking.
Another aspect, I've found if you dry hop, the extra hoppiness starts to diminish after 5-6 weeks,
so that brew needs to be drunk fresh, no longer than 4 weeks if you want the full effect.
It's all a learning curve.

 

[abyss]

I'm thinking that a lot of kit Brewers my self included started experimenting with more malt, better yeast, temp controll, cold crashing etc but have not hopped enough to compensate for the extra un-hopped ingredients
I love my kit beer and brew it with care but at the end of the day it would be shit without dry hopping.

 

[wereprawn]

Looks good. I've got to learn what to do with hops. I'm keen to find a straight K+K setup that doesn't suck though, cos really once you're buying better yeast, hops, liquid malts, etc etc the sums stop adding up. I mean some of the sums I've done, you'd only be a few bucks shy of fresh wort prices, and I'd been hoping to keep the costs a bit lower than that. Mainly cos I'm not working at the moment, until next year. Hobbywise, there are so many interesting options I'm sure I'll end up doing some AG stuff eventually.

If you want to give AG a go, have a squiz at this thread. Comparative beers made with AG ingredients are cheaper if using Aussie base malts than kits n bits brews.http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/38674-move-to-all-grain-for-thirty-bucks/

 

[PaulG79]

Thanks wereprawn I'll have a look . I guess if you use BIAB and buy recipe kits it can't be that hard.

Update on my k+K experiments, I put down a Coopers Craft IPA a couple weeks back, the Diablo, and added 500gms of LDM. I only waited 10 days to bottle it and tried one after a week, so still new, but damn! I nearly fell off the couch, it was hands down the best homebrew I've made by a WIDE margin. I was a bit shocked, couldn't believe how good it is. No weird tastes, and strong with a good flavour. It sorta tasted like a young, cheap version of the hyper expensive IPA I sometimes buy only it was what, $23 for a carton instead of $100 and that was with the kit yeast and no extra hops.

I wonder, if one of the variables no one talks about much is just the quality of the kit. Maybe some of them are just shit brews to start with and that has something to do with the finished flavour. Or maybe the malt masks it.

I'm thinking that a lot of kit Brewers my self included started experimenting with more malt, better yeast, temp controll, cold crashing etc but have not hopped enough to compensate for the extra un-hopped ingredients
I love my kit beer and brew it with care but at the end of the day it would be shit without dry hopping.

I wonder about this too, like some of the recipes you see for straight Coopers kit tins have like a kilo and half of LDM, that's a hell of a lot of malt for the instant tin hops to cope with. How do you do dry hopping? I've got a phobia about opening the fermenter once the lid's on, got enough problems without sending out an invite to all the bacteria floating around. Can you get ok results steeping or boiling and adding at the start of the ferment?

 

[PaulG79]

A return to kits? I've never left them. :chug:
I reckon the so-called twang and "kit taste" is all in their imagination.
The only time I got that was when brewing years ago without temperature control.
Not sure if Coopers has a particular taste as against others because I've only brewed Coopers.
I mostly always brew ales and use US-05 yeast because the yeast on the tin is a bit short on quantity.
But Coopers yeast is fine if you use 2 packets. It's good quality.
The "straight off the shelf" kits I've brewed are Family Secret and Inkeepers Daughter.
Otherwise I use Australian Pale Ale as a base with added hops for different varieties of beer such as 150 Lashes..
Always use LDM (light dry malt) instead of brew enhancers for better body and taste.
Tomorrow I'm putting down a Brew A IPa which I haven't tried, but good reports from this forum.
The brews I've mentioned are from the newer Coopers kits except the APA. They cost a bit more but are well hopped.
I don't see any reason to move to all grain and be tied to the boiler for 4 hours when the kits are great beers.

By the way, I didn't get that gut by drinking pissy Corona or Crownies. :blink: :beerbang:

You'll have to let us know how that Brew A goes, I have a suspicion it's probably the same stuff as the Diablo tin, if so you're in for a treat. I'm switching back to the 23 litres brews mostly from now on so I'm keen to give the Brew A a go too. The craft fermenter is so easy to use, but really, 8.5 litres is not a lot of brew for what you pay for the tins.

 

[Grott]

Good to hear about your success. IMO why not do a couple of these brews first to get you processes stable and then start to experiment with hops etc.

 

[abyss]

I normally have my hops in sanitised bags or stockings etc and open the fv and drop them in. With flowers I put a handful of marbles in the bag so that it eventually sinks.
I mainly dry hop because you can get heaps more flavour and aroma with a nice but not overpowering bitterness at the back of the throat.

 

[PaulG79]

Good to hear about your success. IMO why not do a couple of these brews first to get you processes stable and then start to experiment with hops etc.

Yeah I'm not rushing out to get into hops any time soon, just seems to be so many different ways of hopping, curious about what the best methods are. I've got a few tins lying around so a few more experiments to do. Gonna make a batch of the lager. Used to do the lawnmower lager recipe a bit for something light and fizzy for when you feel like an after work beer. Might try that again but sub the BE1 for the BE3. Problem with those craft style beers, they taste great but they're usually so alcoholic they just aren't always that practical

 

[PaulG79]

I normally have my hops in sanitised bags or stockings etc and open the fv and drop them in. With flowers I put a handful of marbles in the bag so that it eventually sinks.
I mainly dry hop because you can get heaps more flavour and aroma with a nice but not overpowering bitterness at the back of the throat.

so if you did them on a boil, you'd get more of the bitterness but not much of the flavour or aroma? just curious. Once I get my basics down I want to try to make a few hoppier session IPA type beers that don't require a sickkie the next day :lol:

 

[abyss]

Yea I used to steep those little 15g teabags in hot water and to me they were too bitter and at the time I thought the head was not so good.
After the very first time I dry hopped with one of those tea bags I was amazed how much nicer my beers were. Soon after I started buying different varieties in larger amounts as well as growing the suckers.
If you are kegging and find that twang just add more hops and make it go away.

 

[PaulG79]

Drinking your bottled brews 10 days to 2 weeks in is not really giving them a chance to mature/age and allowing yeast to settle out. This could be part of your taste problem and you can not really compare with those 2 months old as you stated temp control was poor. Try and build up some stock (it can be hard) but run 2 fermenters if you can a week apart so you have a batch each week. (leaving each for 14 days). When I bottled I found 6 to 8 weeks was a good time to drink most brews other than stouts, mature longer. Running 2 fermenters, you can get to this by putting a third aside and building stocks up.

Now that you have temp control make your suggested changes like yeast to see how things improve.

Grott, think you were right, I admit I doubted your wisdom on this particular brew cos it was so nasty, but just shy of 4 weeks and it's a completely different beer now. I had a couple last Friday, emergency situation and had no alternative, and it was still pretty bad then, but now the carbonation has improved and that home brew taste has faded well into the background. I actually can't even detect it except a whiff when I first crack a bottle. So from now on, I'm not touching them for 4 weeks no exceptions!

Well unless I make the mistake of buying Carlsberg again. That was bad. First time in a very long time I couldn't drink more than one. Awful, hands down one of the worst beers I've ever tasted!

Edit: I should say I'm not a huge fan of this kit in terms of the flavour, but I'm loving it tonight since I know it's been a success.