A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Dunno]

It is pretty simple, 80lt aluminium pot (looking to upgrade to stainless early nexy year), swiss voille bag, 3 ring burner and medium reg from BCF, using an old fashioned siphon with hose to get it to the fermenter. I think I will add a tap next year when I get a SS kettle and I am already in the planning stage of a rig to lift the bag out of the kettle for large batches. I work in Emergency response in Brisbane so I have plenty of OT in my next pay to spend on stuff to upgrade, I have a mill 1st on my list to allow bulk grain purchases. Love the smell, enjoying the process and now can't wait to taste the beer. Couldn't wait for the Belgian Pale so I hope I don't scew it up from here.

Impatience is a virtue.

Dunno

 

[br33zy]

Hi All,

With some new bling on order from beerbelly, I'm just re-reading the excellent BIABBooklet_1_.pdf to check a few things.

There are a couple of mentions of 'clarity' in the pitch section:

"To assist with clarity, I siphon the first 200 mls or so into the empty jug pinching
the siphon tube as soon as I see the wort running clear."

and

"Monitor the siphon tube, pinch and remove it as soon as you see the clarity
deteriorate. If you have a 25 litre fermenter then you may have to stop the siphon before clarity deteriorates i.e. when the
fermenter level reaches the 23 litre mark."

So what exactly will I be trying to prevent from reaching the fermenter here? Soggy hops and cold break?

I guess up until now we've been doing partial extracts and full extracts and have had too much other stuff to worry about with our ghetto equipment (picture burning wooden pot stands over jury rigged back-packing stoves and the like) to worry about clear wrt. In fact our last extract brew - a SNPA clone, tastes absolutely superb despite having dropped the entire contents of the hop-sock into the fermenter while pitching!

We'll also be adopting the no-chill method along with BIAB. And by my reading that means we can just let the time in the chilling cubes do the work of settling all the particulate matter out to give us a nice clear wrt. Is that a fair interpretation?

Cheers

Mike

P.S. Beerbelly have been absolutely brilliant in helping me make my purchase decisions BTW. And apart from their service, their price (98l SS plus tap and thermometer) was lower than anywhere I could find on the web. Well and truly recommended.

 

[Bribie G]

Hi Breez, I'm going BIAB / No Chill week after next and will be using a 40L urn. I've been thinking along the same lines as yourself and have decided to extend a 'method' I have used in my partials, although we're only talking 8 litres there.

Being an Urn I'll be using the tap not syhphoning, but principle is the same and I've decided to:

• Use hop sock
• Use whirlfloc (Irish Moss) in the kettle
• At the end of the boil, whirlpool the mix and leave for 20 mins to settle
• Carefully remove hopsock and empty contents into a funnel (ss if I can get one) with a sterilized stainless steel kitchen scrubber pushed down into the cone, with the hop bed sitting on top.
• Drain the urn through the spent hop bed into the cube

I have found, with partials, that a hop bed does an amazing job of filtering out the hot break. I just used to pour the whole lot through the hops into the fermenter and found heaps of slimy break sitting on the hops afterwards. With a full size BIAB brew, whirlpooling then resting I expect to get little or no hot break into the cube.

Or should I say I hope to get....

 

[br33zy]

Hi Breez, I'm going BIAB / No Chill week after next and will be using a 40L urn. I've been thinking along the same lines as yourself and have decided to extend a 'method' I have used in my partials, although we're only talking 8 litres there.

Being an Urn I'll be using the tap not syhphoning, but principle is the same and I've decided to:

...

I have found, with partials, that a hop bed does an amazing job of filtering out the hot break. I just used to pour the whole lot through the hops into the fermenter and found heaps of slimy break sitting on the hops afterwards. With a full size BIAB brew, whirlpooling then resting I expect to get little or no hot break into the cube.
...

Hi Bribieg (Urnie?),

I think you're right about that hop bed. We've been suspending the hop sock over the fermenter and pouring the cooled wrt through it too. Great results, even if we do occasionally drop one side of the bag and spill the spent hops in.

Does the whirlpooling leave most of the hops/hot break/sediment at the centre of the vessel - away from the pickup?

Given that the BIAB instructions instruct us to skim the scum (which I assume to be hot-break). I wonder whether we can just pour the whole lot into the cubes un-filtered? (Partly because it will have lots of time to settle out in the cube; partly because one of the factors in no-chilling is to get the freshly boiled wrt into the cubes quick enough that it can help sanitise the cube.)

Cheers

Breezy

 

[Bribie G]

Yes the whirlpooling concentrates the trub into a little hill in the centre of the vessel. Apparently this was first mathematically set out by Albert Einstein no less as everyone else thought that centrifugal force would necessarily send stuff to the outside of the vessel.

I checked my cube last night and although it's a 20L it actually holds 23.5 when full but in my case there's no room for wastage as I do 24 L brews for 12 x 2L pet bottles and it looks like I'll be at the limit of my equipment as I'll have to brew to slightly over gravity and dilute in the fermenter, so personally I won't have any leeway for trub in the cube.

Depending on the size of your cube you may be ok.

The way I look at it, if the cube is sterilized and the rate of transfer isn't too slow I don't run any greater risk of infection than if I were doing kits or partials. I'll be crash chilling cube overnight - it's a Willow Jerrycan that fits neatly in my beer fridge - and pitch next day so don't anticipate running into bug problems. Admittedly might be a different ball game if I were doing what some guys do and store cube for weeks for whatever reason.

We'll have to compare notes in a few weeks

Cheers
Michael

 

[br33zy]

Yes the whirlpooling concentrates the trub into a little hill in the centre of the vessel. Apparently this was first mathematically set out by Albert Einstein no less as everyone else thought that centrifugal force would necessarily send stuff to the outside of the vessel.

I was hoping you'd say that. I've been thinking about whirlpooling for a while - this forum is greatly distracting in that regard! - and now I know we'll be doing it too.

I checked my cube last night and although it's a 20L it actually holds 23.5 when full but in my case there's no room for wastage as I do 24 L brews for 12 x 2L pet bottles and it looks like I'll be at the limit of my equipment as I'll have to brew to slightly over gravity and dilute in the fermenter, so personally I won't have any leeway for trub in the cube.

Depending on the size of your cube you may be ok.

That makes a lot of sense. You've got a well defined work-flow there. Our bottle bank is not nearly as homogenous

We'll have to compare notes in a few weeks

Cheers
Michael

Definitely Michael (!) - good luck with your AG thermonuclear debut

Cheers

Mike

 

[Taster]

I have been brewing with kits only and Ive been thinking of taking the next step into using grains. The info you have supplied on B.I.A.B is excellent and I'm looking forward to having a crack at it.

Regards
Taster.

 

[wambesi]

I have been brewing with kits only and Ive been thinking of taking the next step into using grains. The info you have supplied on B.I.A.B is excellent and I'm looking forward to having a crack at it.

Regards
Taster.

G'Day Taster, Good stuff. It really is so easy to do. Keep us updated and if you need to know anything just ask.
On a side note, if you throw in your location in your profile info you might have other brewers in the area who could help out/invite over etc.

 

[reviled]

I have been brewing with kits only and Ive been thinking of taking the next step into using grains. The info you have supplied on B.I.A.B is excellent and I'm looking forward to having a crack at it.

Regards
Taster.

Good man, Do it!!! You will honestly not regret it, just like many others :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

I have been brewing with kits only and Ive been thinking of taking the next step into using grains. The info you have supplied on B.I.A.B is excellent and I'm looking forward to having a crack at it.

Regards
Taster.

Onya Taster, and if you are in a location where you can pick up your own grain then it can actually save you money vs kits and bits as well as better beer.

Next week hopefully Thursday I'll be doing my first BIAB brew. No 2 brewboy is giving me a hand and I'll post a series of piccies here (unless one of us drops the camera into the wort which knowing me is not out of the question :lol: Dad always used to say "Mick you need to develop some manual dexterity" - AG brewing is a good place to start)

Watch this space.

 

[tdack]

Regarding the material used to make the bag ....

I've made up a larger bag for my partials from the voile and I'm thinking of making the transition to BIAB (need gas ring, regulator and big pot first), but I'm not too sold on the voile. My attempt to use it as a hop sock during a boil resulted in a bit of a hole being melted in the voile and the hops all escaped. I've fixed that by shortening the sock and it shouldn't happen again, but I'd hate for a full batch of grain to escape!

Can anyone see any problems using fine muslin for the bag instead of the voile?

 

[wambesi]

I would advise against it, I use muslin for other uses around the brewery/kitchen and it's just not that strong compared. IMO.

The swiss voile is perfect for this and you won't burn a hole in it as you don't boil the mash, if you do need to apply heat to it to maintain the temp (which I do for 5 or so mins) use a cake rack in the bottom so the bag sits up off the pot.

People have tried using other materials but it always seems to come back (at least most cases anyway) to the voile.
Make the leap though, it's great stuff!

 

[Bribie G]

False bottoms available from our sponsors to avoid bag material sitting on the bottom of the gas heated boiler or draping over an electric heating element.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Regarding the material used to make the bag ....

I've made up a larger bag for my partials from the voile and I'm thinking of making the transition to BIAB (need gas ring, regulator and big pot first), but I'm not too sold on the voile. My attempt to use it as a hop sock during a boil resulted in a bit of a hole being melted in the voile and the hops all escaped. I've fixed that by shortening the sock and it shouldn't happen again, but I'd hate for a full batch of grain to escape!

Can anyone see any problems using fine muslin for the bag instead of the voile?

Muslin will probably work - there is at least someone here on AHB who is using it as a BIAB bag with success... the thing is, there are a lot more people using the voile with success.

It one of those things, pretty much anything that is a fine mesh, that you think is reasonably food grade, is strong enough and can take the heat - will probably work. Nylon, muslin .... no doubt all sorts of other stuff.

BUT, the one material that we know for sure works, is the voile. Its cheap, its readily available and it is tried and tested by many other brewers.

So its up to you really, I'm sure you can make another material work for you... but I am even more sure that you could make the voile work.

TB

 

[Cocko]

Yep voile works for me.

Swiss voile, its a curtain material, a shear, NOT COTTON voile but a synthetic..

Read this: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...+for+biab\

Happy AG'ing!!!

 

[reviled]

False bottoms available from our sponsors to avoid bag material sitting on the bottom of the gas heated boiler or draping over an electric heating element.

Or to save cash, you can simply roll the sides of the bag up so that the bag sits about 10cm from the bottom, then tie the bag to the pot around the lid... Worked for my first 4 BIAB's, no melted bag B)

 

[apd]

Muslin will probably work - there is at least someone here on AHB who is using it as a BIAB bag with success...

That one person is probably me. I know I bang on about muslin a bit but I'm really not comfortable with the food grade quality of nylon/polyester/whatever voile is. So I use muslin. It's a 2 x 1m piece, doubled over. Plenty of strength. I haven't sewn it, it's just draped into the pot and secured with a few pegs around the lip.

Andrew

 

[troydo]

hi guys, I'm sorry i haven't read the whole 80 pages of this post but i have a question.

I use a 3 vessel system, but the other day i wanted to do a crazy test beer and only wanted 4L so i did a BIAB stove top setup.

i noticed the wort was very very cloudy, in the 3 vessel system you recirculate it for a fair time to get a clear wort into the kettle, however with BIAB you get what you get... whats everyone's thoughts on this?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

its cloudy... so what? why do you recirculate to get clear wort?

I've been studying brewing for a while now and cant find a reason that is actually supported by any recent studies. In most cases where I have looked at reasons brewers quote for trying to get a clear wort... I can find another brewer or another text that says that its not a concern.

My brief take on the science is -

That a turbid wort contains more lipids and fatty acids as well as polyphenols and protiens than does clear wort - what affect does this have on the beer? Depends - Increased lipids can lead to premature staling and head degradation - but if you have an effective boil and trub separation process, then the lipid and fat content of cast wort is going to be basically comparable between cloudy and clear worts, higher in the turbid, but not particularly so. So it doesn't matter a lot really - except that the trub separation is going to be a little harder in a cloudy wort because you will have more trub. The proteins and polyphenols cause slightly lower utilisation of bittering compounds. And turbid worts contain more anthocyanogens which lead to haze in aged beers. It also screws up a few process things if you happen to be a production brewery

There are a few other things as well, but the upshot is that there are very few things about a cloudy wort that are going to negatively effect the flavour or clarity of your beer - there are a couple that might affect the stability of the beer over time. Both in flavour and appearance.

The upside is that turbid worts lead to healthier and more vigorous fermentations than does bright wort. But thats the only downside to clear wort really... so thats why most brewers go with "clearer = better" cloudy wort isn't really all that bad... but clear wort definitely isn't bad, so its shooting for the safety zone to aim for clear wort.

IMHO the predominant reason that home brewers try to achieve a clear wort, is because brewers like the way it looks and because the brewer/book they learned how to brew from told them it was important. When for the most part it isn't particularly.

I recirculate enough so that there are no chunky bits and then it goes to the kettle, by the time I get to teh end of my sparge its bright anyway - when I BIAB, well BIAB lets no chunky bits through and thats good enough for me in most cases.

Thirsty

PS - I don't pretend to be a font of brewing knowledge, I have been looking at text books while typing this

 

[reviled]

Hey Thirsty, maybe you can help shed some light...

We recently did our case swap, and all the BIAB beers have what seems to be chill haze, but its not a chill haze that goes away when the glass warms up, so we were thinking maybe its something else??

I know that myself personally, I dont discard the cloudy wort at the start of syphon like you told me to in the guide, could this be the reason?

I recently started gelatining but the chill (or whatever) haze is still there in full force :unsure: