1st Sour Recipe is this OK?

[droid]

Hello all and a special hello to any and all of the sour heads out there!

Could you please have a look at this recipe and make any suggestions tips as I'm kinda all over the place with it but ready to mill the grains this arvo for brewing tomorrow.

I was going to make a very sweet beer, might even do a decoction, boiling up the torrified wheat, using 34/70 at 22C to try and throw some suplur which I've read can help contribute to a stone fruit character. was going to shut down ferment at 1020, cold crash then rack to sour keg and ad brett WLP648

Title: Puckered Pie-Hole

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Gueuze? Sour of some sort - I haven't managed to make it fit any style properly
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 40 liters (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 55 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.051
Efficiency: 75% (ending kettle)

Original Gravity: 1.071
Final Gravity: 1.016 shut down at 1020, guessing it won't go any further anyway
ABV (standard): 7.14%
IBU (tinseth): 5.02
SRM (morey): 8.85

FERMENTABLES:
9 kg - United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale (74.5%)
0.575 kg - German - CaraRed (4.8%)
0.5 kg - United Kingdom - Crystal 30L (4.1%)
2 kg - Torrified Wheat (16.6%)

HOPS:
5 g - waimea, Type: Pellet, AA: 16, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 5.02

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Decoction, Temp: 70 C, Time: 90 min, Amount: 30 L
Starting Mash Thickness: 3 L/kg

YEAST:
German Lager Yeast W-34/70 slurry
Fermentation Temp: 22 C

NOTES:
boiling up some torrified wheat then adding at 70mash
mashing super high for sweetness which will give the brett something to munch on later
pitching w34/70 for 2 weeks with a 600ml slurry fermenting high to get suplhur which apparently can lead to a stone fruit flavour
shut down at 1020 with a CC then transfer to sour keg and ad brett 648

cheers

 

[Liam_snorkel]

what's in the sour keg?

 

[mofox1]

Does it have to be called Droid Juice? :blink:

 

[droid]

what's in the sour keg?

just a stainless keg that I was going to use just for sours

Does it have to be called Droid Juice? :blink:

OKOK how about Puckered Pie-hole?

 

[Liam_snorkel]

brett brux on it's own won't make it sour

 

[droid]

ah, what are my options for souring?

 

[Liam_snorkel]

primarily lactobacillus. you could have a go adding dregs of unpasteurised sour beers as well.
have a read through milk the funk, it's a treasure trove of info: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Mixed_Fermentation

 

[paulyman]

Lacto and or pedio, which you can add with the Brett.

 

[paulyman]

If you make a starter for the Brett you could primary ferment with it, some strains will throw all kinds of tropical fruit and often cherry aromas in primary which slowly fades to the classic barnyard as it ages.

 

[droid]

Oh wow, ok I was going to ask about whether it needs a starter for the 1020 meal. I can make a starter no probs, If brett was used in the primary what would change at the brewhouse?

I was looking for a sour fruit zing type of beer and I bought brett 648 coz it sounded more betterer

 

[droid]

I have got lactic acid on hand too

 

[Liam_snorkel]

if you're adding lactobacillus in secondary, you could use the lactic acid to pre-sour the wort ro around 4-4.3pH before pitching the lacto - it's supposed to help maintain head retention.

 

[droid]

ok thanks man, it's a different world :blink:
what do you think about using a lager yeast at a higher temp to throw sulphur? it's just that I have 600mls of 34/70 ready to go as opposed to making a starter of Brett
so lactobacillus might be the go later with the brett then
thanks for the link - I might not bother racking to another keg and just leave it in the primary now

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Yep, the only thing is if that primary fermenter is plastic, you might have a hard time getting the brett & lacto out, it might have to become a dedicated funk fermenter

RE sulfir - I don't know, haven't read anything about doing that yet. I guess a mixed ferment would clean it up eventually?

 

[droid]

Thanks, I have a stainless keg awaiting!

re sulphur - I have the book American Sours and in the last paragraph on page 49 he says quote: Lager Yeast strains tend to produce more sulphur compounds than ale strains which can give the finished beer a delicious stone fruit character. The Lost Abbey and New Belgium use it for their base sours.
This is if you were to ferment at warmer temps with the lager strain than normal. If i had some 2278 I'd be using that but alas the w34/70 is going to get the job.

 

[bevan]

This may be worth a read, I'm looking to do something simular

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/91065-holgate-hop-tart/

 

[droid]

interesting cheers

 

[barls]

the recipe looks good but id suggest something like ether roselare or http://www.theyeastbay.com/wild-yeast-and-bacteria-products/melange
even the lambic blend and sour mix isn't bad as a start.
rather than a straight brett.

 

[droid]

feckin brilliant links guys - barls I see it says starters are not recommended for blends as it can change the ratio or organisms. Thanks for the link mate

I've done a 48degC mash and have shut the lid and stopped recirc, leaving it overnight to drop naturally, expecting 40deg or a bit higher when I check in the AM

was thinking that tomorrow to mash as normal and ad the torrified wheat after boiling it to hit 70dC then throw in some wheat malt and leave it till friday to sparge and boil?

ferment with w34/70 and before it hits 1020 work out exactly what to do from there... ee gad!

 

[AJ80]

Good luck Droid - it's a very slippery slope you're about to go down. If you're going down the sour mash/kettle souring option make sure you lay down a nice CO2 blanket on top to keep out oxygen otherwise you'll end up with some pretty nasty tasting/smelling compounds.

Just my $0.02's worth, but I find I get a more pronounced bretty funk by adding Brett in primary along with a regular sacc yeast (although I've never mixed lager yeast with Brett) rather than a clean primary ferment and Brett in secondary. 100% Brett ferments I find end up super fruity before fading to classic funk. Horses for courses really and I'm sure you'll end up with something tasty.