10 Min Apa No Chill. Thoughts?

[lastdrinks]

Did the below recipe after getting some ideas from some of the hopburst recipes and threads, I was going for a flavour/aroma hoppy APA. I have just kegged it and my early tasting are that it is too bitter. Not bad at all plenty of aroma and flavour but too bitter. I was hoping a no-chiller had done some experimenting with large late additions of hops and could pass on some technique advice.

Was planning the next brew to have a malt bill similar to DrS's GA but to a OG of 1.052 with 100grams of Cascade and 100grams of Amarillo at 5 minutes in a double batch, no-chilled. Would like to know if someone has tried this before, my calc's say this would come out with 35-ish IBU's. Will this large late addition add any strange flavours? Anyway this throws up plenty of questions to me as i am fairly new to brewing, 3 years.


Thanks


Recipe: APA

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 44.00 L
OG: 1.051 SG
Color: 8.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 44.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 56.70 %
2.40 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 24.74 %
1.20 kg Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 12.37 %
0.60 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 6.19 %
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [13.20 %] (20 min) Hops 9.5 IBU
20.00 gm Cascade [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
20.00 gm Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (20 min) Hops 10.1 IBU
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [13.20 %] (10 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
30.00 gm Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (10 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
30.00 gm Cascade [5.40 %] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

that's a lot of late high aa hops there for no chill. It doesn't surprise me that it is a little more bitter than expected.

i no chill and add hops to the cube and calculate them in beersmith as a 10 min boil addition. anything later in the boil i either make a hop tea and add to fermenter at pitching time or do a small volume boil and chill in the sink as has been suggested by argon. If i want more hoppyness i dry hop in the fermenter or keg.

not sure about your recipe without more specifics sorry. From my experience though beers with large late additions are very tasty and have big aroma but are more suited to conventional chilling methods.

cheers

 

[Hatchy]

Do you still get bitterness from cube hops? don't they have to boil to extract bitterness? I don't know, just asking. I'm pretty sure I read/heard that somewhere many beers ago.

I did something similar but mine was only 1 hop with 1 10 min addition. I reckon I put it in beersmith as a 20 min addition but in the kettle at 10. Due to a backup malfunction for a laptop format I don't have that recipe any more.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

You definitely get bitterness from the cube hop. In highly scientific terms the wort is freakin hot going into the cube and stays hot for a long time (depends on ambient temp) I calculate mine at a 10 min boil add. seems to work for me.

I've been too chicken to go a cube hop only beer though (there's an idea). Generally I do a 60 min bittering + cube + dry.

 

[Hatchy]

I'd been lead to believe that it was something to do with the boiling motion that extracted the bitterness.

I won't be doing it this week because I have yeast ready to go so I'll chill but I'll be doing a 100% cube hop beer some time soon. 200g of galaxy in a cube should smell pretty good.

 

[Barley Belly]

You definitely get bitterness from the cube hop. In highly scientific terms the wort is freakin hot going into the cube and stays hot for a long time (depends on ambient temp) I calculate mine at a 10 min boil add. seems to work for me.

I've been too chicken to go a cube hop only beer though (there's an idea). Generally I do a 60 min bittering + cube + dry.

Care to share a typical recipe??

I've been too chicken to cube hop altogether but you have me intrigued in the process all of a sudden

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

Take this one for example. I started out wanting to make something like mountain goat high tail ale and ended up with this.
The 10 minute additions are cube hops and the dry hops are keg hops.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: hightail aleish
Brewer: Mayor of Mildura
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Boil Size: 26.58 l
Bottling Volume: 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 29.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 2 77.7 %
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 3 9.7 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 4 5.8 %
0.15 kg Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139.9 EBC) Grain 5 2.9 %
0.10 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 6 1.9 %
0.10 kg Pale choc (700.0 EBC) Grain 7 1.9 %
25.00 g Pride of Ringwood [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 8 28.6 IBUs
25.00 g Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 9.0 IBUs
10.00 g Saaz B [8.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 3.6 IBUs
10.00 g Saaz B [8.60 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
10.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [125 Yeast 12 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.15 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 28.91 l of water at 67.9 C 65.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 l of water and heat to 75.6 C 75.6 C 10 min


Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[lastdrinks]

The plan was to add the hops 5 or 10 minutes before the end of the boil, then remove the hop sock. I calc an extra 10 or 15 minutes bittering when going into the cube.

 

[argon]

You certainly do extract bitterness from hops in the cube. Above approx 75c will slubolise the alpha acids into the wort, adding bitterness.

I've done a 100% cube hop beer. Coincedently a 100% galaxy addition. Calculated as a 15min addition (in summer) and to about 35ibu. Was a very memorable beer. Been tempted to do it again with simcoe or chinook.

If you're thinking of doing it, five it a go, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

You certainly do extract bitterness from hops in the cube. Above approx 75c will slubolise the alpha acids into the wort, adding bitterness.

I've done a 100% cube hop beer. Coincedently a 100% galaxy addition. Calculated as a 15min addition (in summer) and to about 35ibu. Was a very memorable beer. Been tempted to do it again with simcoe or chinook.

If you're thinking of doing it, five it a go, you won't be dissapointed.

Argon
I'm expecting a truckload of galaxy tomorrow and am going to do one of these and no chill. Care to share your grain bill??
Cheers
BBB

 

[mje1980]

Im drinking my 2nd no chilled 10 min APA. I dont change any calcs to adjust for no chill, and im drinking it 2 days after i gassed it, and it is not too bitter at all. Maybe leave it a week and taste it again, it might just need to mellow a bit.

 

[argon]

Argon
I'm expecting a truckload of galaxy tomorrow and am going to do one of these and no chill. Care to share your grain bill??
Cheers
BBB

firstly... jesus i have fat fingers after a few beers posting late at night... Slubolise??? i even slur when i type!


If i were to do this again i would do this as a west coast amber:
90% Golden Promise
10% Special B
OG1055
Cube hopped to 45IBU

Here's the grain bill i did for this one. I added a small amount of hops at the start of the boil just to encourage some hot break in the kettle. Then the rest in the cube and dryhop.


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Galaxy APA
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 52.62 l
Post Boil Volume: 44.72 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 43.00 l
Bottling Volume: 43.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 11.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.00 kg Galaxy, BB (1.9 SRM) Grain 1 80.4 %
0.75 kg Munich Malt (7.6 SRM) Grain 2 7.5 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt, BB (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 5.0 %
0.35 kg Caraaroma (203.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.5 %
0.35 kg Caramalt, BB (21.5 SRM) Grain 5 3.5 %
5.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 80.0 min Hop 6 4.5 IBUs
40.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
75.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 31.7 IBUs
1.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [125.00 Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 9.95 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 25.87 l of water at 72.4 C 66.0 C 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (10.40l, 26.31l) of 90.0 C water
Notes:
------
No chill adjustment - 15 min Hop additions are at Flameout

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Bada Bing Brewery]

Thanks Argon
Cheers
BBB

 

[amiddler]

Almost makes me want to get out the cube again and give one a go. Passionfruit Station here I come.

Drew

 

[lastdrinks]

After all that said, i am sitting here with a slight hangover from this beer and i have changed my mind about it. Pretty good really, wasnt too bitter but it was bloody hoppy. Quite happy. Might make a lager today.

 

[mje1980]

Good stuff mate! Im in a similar position today from drinking a few of mine. Not brewing today though, d'oh!

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Got 90g Galaxy from CB on Friday. Yay! When my truckload of Cascade, Citra and Willamette comes in from the US, and with the few grams of Nelson Sauvin left, I'm making a (mostly) 10 min hop rocket.

Fruitsalad city and grassiness.

Goomba

 

[lastdrinks]

Will use this late hopping only method for an IPA soon. Have picked up a few good ideas from this site and Jamil about the malt recipe and looking forward to trying this hopping style with that extra malt character but i have two jegs of this batch to polish off first. PLus a keg of brown ale, wheat and my soon to be brewed euro lager.


Lifes tuff

 

[a1149913]

Back slightly on topic, alpha acids (%aa) from hops will contine to be isomerised at temperatures above 80C to produce what we perceive as bitterness. So i guess the easiest way to work out IBU's when chilling in a cube would be to monitor the time i takes to go from boiling in the kettle to hitting around 75C in the cube and then add that time to each hop addition time point. Beersmith will do the rest. But note that it will only be approximate due to the efficiency of isomerising alpha acids decreasing as the temperature nears 75-80C

Hope this helps, JT

 

[felten]

Back slightly on topic, alpha acids (%aa) from hops will contine to be isomerised at temperatures above 80C to produce what we perceive as bitterness. So i guess the easiest way to work out IBU's when chilling in a cube would be to monitor the time i takes to go from boiling in the kettle to hitting around 75C in the cube and then add that time to each hop addition time point. Beersmith will do the rest. But note that it will only be approximate due to the efficiency of isomerising alpha acids decreasing as the temperature nears 75-80C

Hope this helps, JT

Right, isomerisation continues below 100c, but at a greatly decreased rate. The IBU calcs are setup for a model where the hops are being boiled, both the increased temp and the vigour of the boil; so you can't just plug that extra time in the cube in as if it were isomerising at the same rate.

Hence the suggestion of them being boiled for an equivalent 10-15 mins longer, even though the cube is above 75c for a lot longer than that.