Yeast And Lagering

[Norcs]

I am currently brewing a lager with Saflager S-23, and am at the point where I am about to crash chill / condition (lager ?) and was planning to put up the the longer timeframe and do this @ 2c as I have ppreviously read that this produces a cleaner and clearer beer.

However after reading through the John Palmer Book it recommends that the beer be condtioned at no lower than 7c, why would this be ?

 

[buttersd70]

I don't recall him stating that....what is the context? (ie...please give a quote)

 

[Norcs]

I don't recall him stating that....what is the context? (ie...please give a quote)

This ....
Saflager S-23 (DCL Yeast)
This lager strain is used by several European commercial breweries. This yeast develops soft estery notes at the recommended temperature range of 48-59F and more ale-like characteristics at warmer temperatures. From what I have read, I am speculating that this is a Kolsch or Alt-type yeast. This strain of yeast will produce a lager character at 54F, and homebrewers have reported good results with this yeast. Given the recommended fermentation temperature range, these yeasts may not respond well to lagering (extended secondary fermentation at low temperatures) as described in Chapter 10, and probably should be maintained at 54F for the duration of the time in the fermenter, approximately 2-3 weeks. I have not used this yeast myself and cannot say for certain.

from here http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-4-1.html

While is doesnt specifically mention what I said, the version of the book I had from the library definately did mention that it was not recommended to lager at lower than 7c

 

[buttersd70]

hmm. I have to say, I haven't used this yeast myself...but then again, neither has palmer.
I can't think of a particular reason as to why he would say this. without knowing his reasons (other than 'other brewers have said...'), I couldn't really comment on it one way or the other......I would go with what is regarded as conventional wisdom (ie, crash chill and lager cold) unless someone can give a reasoning (other than anecdotal) as to why the conventional is not appropriate in this case. 2c only.

 

[Norcs]

hmm. I have to say, I haven't used this yeast myself...but then again, neither has palmer.
I can't think of a particular reason as to why he would say this. without knowing his reasons (other than 'other brewers have said...'), I couldn't really comment on it one way or the other...

Im guessing he may have used it since as he also mentions taste characteristics in the version that I had.

Just wondering if it can cause different taste or off flavours, as I can for the life of me think why it would be an issue.

 

[kabooby]

I would think it is mainly due to the yeast cleaning up after itself. Taste your beer. If it is not that clean leave it a few more days @7C and then cold condition. If you cold condition @2C than the yeast are going to stop working and drop out, if you condition @7C the yeast will continue to work cleaning up.

Kabooby

 

[hazard]

On a very simiar topic - i am interested in chilling my fermenter to assist in clarification of beer - note that this is ale, not lager i'm brewing. I was at Mountain Goat a while ago on brewery tour and they said they chill after fermentation is complete.

So my question is - if I chill the fermenter will all the yeast drop to bottom? Will there be enough yeast left for bottle conditioning and carbobation. I don't use kegs (yet) so I need to know that I can still bottle if I use this technique.

hazard

 

[Millet Man]

On a very simiar topic - i am interested in chilling my fermenter to assist in clarification of beer - note that this is ale, not lager i'm brewing. I was at Mountain Goat a while ago on brewery tour and they said they chill after fermentation is complete.

So my question is - if I chill the fermenter will all the yeast drop to bottom? Will there be enough yeast left for bottle conditioning and carbobation. I don't use kegs (yet) so I need to know that I can still bottle if I use this technique.

hazard

It will be fine, common practice to chill ales to drop out the yeast. There will still be enough yeast to bottle condition just make sure the bottles are warmed up to at least 15C for a few weeks after filling. As I recall Mountain Goat bulk prime and bottle cold, and slightly warm the bottles on the way to being packed into boxes and store until they are carbonated.

As for the original question regarding S-23, it is a "true lager yeast" (ref Fermentis website) and should be lagered cold, not at 7C. Palmer was "speculating that this is a Kolsch or Alt-type yeast" based on the fermentation characteristics rather than experience. Have used it many times at home and work and it is a lager yeast.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[hazard]

It will be fine, common practice to chill ales to drop out the yeast. There will still be enough yeast to bottle condition just make sure the bottles are warmed up to at least 15C for a few weeks after filling.

Thanks Andrew, this is comforting. I'll proceed on this basis.

Hazard