Wort Chill Method

[rich_lamb]

I used to immersion-chill; but got rapidly sick of the extra hassle, time, water, etc so I moved to no-chill about half a dozen brews ago.
My beer quality took a hit as a result: less clarity, bitterness and hop flavour all over the place, astringency. I must be careful not to automatically ascribe all this to no-chill as I have changed a few other items and rarely brew the same recipe back to back.

I've worked on fixing most of these problems by doing the following:
1) Filtering out the trub and hops before the cube, which corrects most of the over-hopping
2) "Quasi-chilling". After the cube has had about 10 min on each side to pasteurise, I sit it in a tub of cool water to chill it more rapidly. I saw a graph of isomerisation vs temperature somewhere recently that suggested an inverse-log effect, such that isomerisation is almost negligable under about 80 degrees...

So I'll keep brewing and gathering results, though the impression I have is that chilling gives more control over the flavour and quality. When I get my big water tank and pump I will probably go back to chilling. Though my laziness may have increased by then.

For me, no-chill has more benefits than drawbacks at the moment. I can get a brew done after work, and I don't need my yeast ready to brew. Gotta love that.

 

[manticle]

At the moment I put in a laundry tub of iced water then whack in the fridge. Takes several hours and it's usually very late in the night/morning.

I tried boiling and cooling some extra water (7 L) for my last brew but probably had the idea too late so it was not as cool as I'd have liked. Some of it went on the pumpkins.

Water wastage for immersion chilling (I assume that's what the jargon means??) is minimal as I scoop most of it out into a bucket and water the vege garden.

No chill sounds tempting.

 

[fcmcg]

I built a thing that uses a small big bin , a $60 AL#I garden pump and a few lenths of hose...all conected to my immersion chiller.The bins 3/4 full with water that i collected from ice.I occasionaly treat the water with iodopher. On brew day ,i start up the pump ,I add a frozen 15L cube of water and after about 15-20 mins i add a bag of ice. I add another bag of ice if needed. This thing can cool down a wort to 23 degrees in about 30-40 mins depending on ambient temp.The system is a wee ripper and it doesn't waste water ! I did do one brew of an Xmas extract beer that i no chilled once...the cube STILL smells like plum pud ! lol... i decided this was the way to go !

 

[the_yobbo]

I built a thing that uses a small big bin , a $60 AL#I garden pump and a few lenths of hose...all conected to my immersion chiller.The bins 3/4 full with water that i collected from ice.I occasionaly treat the water with iodopher. On brew day ,i start up the pump ,I add a frozen 15L cube of water and after about 15-20 mins i add a bag of ice. I add another bag of ice if needed. This thing can cool down a wort to 23 degrees in about 30-40 mins depending on ambient temp.The system is a wee ripper and it doesn't waste water ! I did do one brew of an Xmas extract beer that i no chilled once...the cube STILL smells like plum pud ! lol... i decided this was the way to go !

Impressive

Ok, it seems that there is a depth of brewing that I'm not familar with. I've only just done my first extract brew using a 10L boil. Once complete I placed the brew pot in the laundry sink which was half full of cold water. Left it there for about 5 minute before straining the contents into the fermenter and topping up with cold water to 22L.
Is there a reason for cooling the brew quickly other than getting to pitching temps quickly?

 

[felten]

locking in the flavour/aroma from the hops

 

[manticle]

According to the literature I've read:

-With full mash brewing rapid chilling can help form better cold break (certain proteins that precipitate and drop out - they can affect stability and cause haze in the finished product).

-Additionally DMS can continue to form while the wort is hot depending on the amount of precursor within the wort. If this is not evaporated then it will condense back into the wort

-While wort is boiling hot and while it's actively fermenting it is generally resistant to microbial attack. However like any foodstuff, bacteria can grow within certain temperature ranges and create problems in the finished beer. Thus the least amount of time it spends at those ranges the better.

As a final note, wort should be under a certain temp before it is agitated (may be as low as 30 degrees C but I'd need to check my facts) or it is in danger of causing HSA (hot side aeration).

Again - understanding from literature rather than me stating dogmatic fact : no-chill seems to circumvent most of these problems.

I guess the other thing is just not wanting to wait around all night so you can pitch and go do something else.

 

[the_yobbo]

According to the literature I've read:

-With full mash brewing rapid chilling can help form better cold break (certain proteins that precipitate and drop out - they can affect stability and cause haze in the finished product).

-Additionally DMS can continue to form while the wort is hot depending on the amount of precursor within the wort. If this is not evaporated then it will condense back into the wort

-While wort is boiling hot and while it's actively fermenting it is generally resistant to microbial attack. However like any foodstuff, bacteria can grow within certain temperature ranges and create problems in the finished beer. Thus the least amount of time it spends at those ranges the better.

As a final note, wort should be under a certain temp before it is agitated (may be as low as 30 degrees C but I'd need to check my facts) or it is in danger of causing HSA (hot side aeration).

Again - understanding from literature rather than me stating dogmatic fact : no-chill seems to circumvent most of these problems.

I guess the other thing is just not wanting to wait around all night so you can pitch and go do something else.

Hmm, oops.
Pouring the wort from the pot to fermenter through a strainer is possibly the worst thing I could do I imagine in regards to HSA. I had 10L and after topping up to 23L with cold water it was still around 36 degrees, so the wort was probably a good 50+ degrees when strained.

A quick google search to find out what HSA is/does. Is the only effect going to be possible chill haze therefore no effect on beer flavour/taste/body/fementation?

 

[manticle]

HSA has nothing to do with chill haze. Chill haze is formed by certain proteins (associated with cold break) forming hazing compounds. These don't affect beer flavour but there is some suggestion they may impact stability.

Hot side aeration is caused by agitation of the wort when it is above certain temperatures and can lead to staling and oxidative flavours. There is debate as to whether it is worth worrying about on a homebrew scale - myself I prefer to take steps to avoid it because it's easy enough to do so.

There will be more technical rundowns somewhere. Start wit Palmer's HTB - I think he covers them both.

 

[The Mad Hopper]

HSA can be a problem for the homebrewer, but you really do need to be a doofus to make it happen. When doing my first AG, I tried to pour a post boil batch of wort into the chilling cube. Aside from the fact that I almost gave myself third degree burns and most of the wort ended up on the ground, the splashing through the funnel into the cube caused the beer to really taste like crap.

After that I just drilled a hole into the side of the pot, whacked in a tap and now transfer to the cube using silicone tubing. Never had that problem again.

 

[the_yobbo]

Ok, so how do people doing the no-chill method avoid/minimise HSA risk since we're talking about a wort that is jolly hot.
SWMBO wouldn't be too pleased if I put a tap on the side our biggest cooking pot, so I'll count that one out for now thanks Hopper.
Obviously syphoning into a cube to be sealed and cooled naturally over time seems obvious but syphoning boiling wort does sound a bit tricky.
Can you add ice cubes (made from good water source) directly to the wort to cool it down, then perhaps I add cold water to get it up near the 20L mark. By then the temp should be well down?

 

[matho]

i made a counter flow chiller from parts from the big hardware store for about $60
6m of 12.7mm copper tubing
6m of 20mm pvc tubing
2* 15mm to 15mm to 18mm adaptor
hose clamps

it cools 24l in about 15 to 20 min, its easy to clean and doesn't get blocked.
i think it gives alot better hop flavour and aroma than when i no chill.
here are some pics



a close up of the 15mm to 15mm to 18mm adaptor



Edit: I forgot to mention it cools to 5 deg of tap temp

cheer's matho

 

[felten]

I use a SS racking cane +2m of silicone tubing, starting the siphon with sanitiser, and leaving the tube in the bottom of the cube to minimise splashing.

Oh and gloves.

I find it difficult to do solo however, racking clips are completely useless

 

[QldKev]

I built a thing that uses a small big bin , a $60 AL#I garden pump and a few lenths of hose...all conected to my immersion chiller.The bins 3/4 full with water that i collected from ice.I occasionaly treat the water with iodopher. On brew day ,i start up the pump ,I add a frozen 15L cube of water and after about 15-20 mins i add a bag of ice. I add another bag of ice if needed. This thing can cool down a wort to 23 degrees in about 30-40 mins depending on ambient temp.The system is a wee ripper and it doesn't waste water ! I did do one brew of an Xmas extract beer that i no chilled once...the cube STILL smells like plum pud ! lol... i decided this was the way to go !

ok, am I missing something here? Rather than use some extra water that you could use on your garden or recycle into a tank you use electricity to chill at least 20L of ice which is most probably from a carbon burning station?

I think I'll stay with no-chill



QldKev

 

[Greg Lawrence]

ok, am I missing something here? Rather than use some extra water that you could use on your garden or recycle into a tank you use electricity to chill at least 20L of ice which is most probably from a carbon burning station?

I think I'll stay with no-chill

View attachment 38991

QldKev

the carbon produced by chilling is hardly even a piss the ocean compared to one of these

 

[QldKev]

the carbon produced by chilling is hardly even a piss the ocean compared to one of these
View attachment 38993

but every bit helps...
and yes I do drive a GENIII Commodore

QldKev

 

[manticle]

Ok, so how do people doing the no-chill method avoid/minimise HSA risk since we're talking about a wort that is jolly hot.
SWMBO wouldn't be too pleased if I put a tap on the side our biggest cooking pot, so I'll count that one out for now thanks Hopper.
Obviously syphoning into a cube to be sealed and cooled naturally over time seems obvious but syphoning boiling wort does sound a bit tricky.
Can you add ice cubes (made from good water source) directly to the wort to cool it down, then perhaps I add cold water to get it up near the 20L mark. By then the temp should be well down?

The only way is to buy another pot and plumb it or try siphoning hot wort. You could use an auto siphon type thingy to do it - not sure about their heat ratings though. The one I have doesn't look like it would withstand super hot.

I guess you could ladle it gently out but it would take forever, be painful and couldn't be done into a cube (only a fermenter and then - what's the point? Chill it).

If adding ice cubes, you should probably make your own in clean sanitised containers using boiled water and make sure they are well sealed.

Are we talking full volume boils ? (because obviously you need to take into account the extra volume of the ice)

 

[the_yobbo]

The only way is to buy another pot and plumb it or try siphoning hot wort. You could use an auto siphon type thingy to do it - not sure about their heat ratings though. The one I have doesn't look like it would withstand super hot.

I guess you could ladle it gently out but it would take forever, be painful and couldn't be done into a cube (only a fermenter and then - what's the point? Chill it).

If adding ice cubes, you should probably make your own in clean sanitised containers using boiled water and make sure they are well sealed.

Are we talking full volume boils ? (because obviously you need to take into account the extra volume of the ice)

I feel I should be starting another thread but I'm pushing on here...

No, I've only been doing 10L boils at this stage.

I've read a little on the 'no chill' method and they all point to raking the wort into a cube, sealing with very little head space to minimise oxidation and the like I assume. Is this necessary?
As it's only a 10L brew, can simply raking into the fermenter (with other fermentables), topping up with cold water to volume then waiting for the brew to cool naturally to pitching temps?

 

[Bribie G]

The majority of AG brewers do not top up with cold water, so I assume you are brewing over gravity then diluting to 'normal' strength. That being the case you would be better off putting your wee 10L into a laundry sink with some cold water, getting it most of the way, then topping it up and pop into fridge for a couple of hours to get to pitching temperature.

 

[manticle]

I feel I should be starting another thread but I'm pushing on here...

No, I've only been doing 10L boils at this stage.

I've read a little on the 'no chill' method and they all point to raking the wort into a cube, sealing with very little head space to minimise oxidation and the like I assume. Is this necessary?

It's the only reason no -chill works

As it's only a 10L brew, can simply raking into the fermenter (with other fermentables), topping up with cold water to volume then waiting for the brew to cool naturally to pitching temps?

10 Litres, 20 litres - makes little difference. Yes you could rack into a fermenter, top up with cool water and wait.

However

1. This has nothing to do with no chill. No chill is useful because you can ferment 1 day later, 6 days later, 6+ months later if done properly. That's half the appeal of the method.
2. You would be pouring some hot wort unless you have a tap and hose or a siphon. Depends on how worried you are about Hot side aeration.
3. Your brew would sit for some time before yeast pitching. The wort is vulnerable to infection between certain temp ranges especially when there is no yeast to fight off the competitors so brewers generally try and minimise that time and they do that by chilling quickly (or by no chilling). Slow chilling is the most vulnerable.

However depending on the circumstances, it may work fine - just be aware that by doing so you are increasing your risk of infection. Can be done and can be done successfully - there's just potential for things to go pear shaped.

As I said - if you do want the benefits of no-chill for an extract brew, either buy a smaller cube or top up with boiling water into the cube (still best siphoning or going through a hose though so you need a hose that copes with heat and best not to siphon boiling stuff with your mouth).

 

[grantsglutenfreehomebrew]

If anyone is interested, the method I use is to make ice cylinders out of boiled water. I sterilise a jug with amount indicators on the side and fill to one litre with boiled water. I place it straight into the freezer. The steam coming off it stops any bacteria or nasties getting in. Hot water freezes quicker than room temp water (I heard somewhere). I freeze the water and do this until I have 3 of them. I place these in the bottom of my fermenting barrel when I am pouring my wort in (approx. 8 litres taken off boil and let rest for 10 minutes) then add the rest of my water (tap) to make anywhere between 20 and 23 litres. This cools the wort to approx 24 degrees give or take a few. I can then pitch the hydrated yeast immediately.
It's cheap and nasty but it works well. I hope this is of some help.
Grant