Williamswarn Personal Brewery

[Dan Pratt]

I've had a bit of a read and hey I like the system it has a lot of functions, although it's for extract or fwk and you need to have more equipment to accomodate AG it's unlike anything else on the market. Still way too exxy to justify.

I went online last night for about 2hrs and couldn't locate the records from the Asia Beer Awards 2012. I found the list of brewerys that attended from the beer beer website but there appears to be no archived results, you know who else won other category's and who they tied 1st place with for the Pilsner.

I'm almost at the point to email the makers and find the records, anyone been able to locate the comp results??

 

[roger mellie]

Ok a lot of people hate this thread well f@# no hang on I'll try another tact

There has been some great banter here I applaude it humor to me

Especially the Kiwi Aussie banter love it

WW guys, girls dont want to be sexist how do you adjust the pressure on it
reason I ask is Im going to give the pressure ferment a go

I like the idea of digital control suggested to me from Trev I think ?? rather than a adjustable valve

Do the WW instructions give you a procedure for different pressures for different yeasts
different pressures at different times of the ferment

Cheers in advance to WW owners

Rude/Lethal

There are 2 pressure control devices.

A simple spring balance type on the top of the unit that is adjusted by a 'thats where I set it last time' number of turns. Next to that is a pressure gauge.

After pitching I open 1.5 turns to the left - that gives ~180 to 200kPa of pressure. Depending on what I am making I will lower the pressure to about 175 kPa (for an APA say) or wind in for 220 kPA if I am doing a wheat/pils. The pressure - even at high Krausen - doesn't change alarmingly fast - so getting it wrong isn't the end of the world.

I can see merit in an solenoid valve pressure release mechanism - but you are dealing with quite small passes (5/16 ID) and small SOVS have a tendency to block up (they don't like moisture). During the ferment - you never hear the CO2 escaping but there is a decent volume of gas produced and at 200kPa makes an audible noise if you release pressure manually and there is the occasional carry over of moisture - I reckon a SOV would block up.

So I figure thats why they went with a spring balance type.

The other benefit of the spring balance type is you can remove it completely and tip starsan down its innids for cleaning.

The other is a PRV that is set at 300kPa - you can't adjust this one.

As far as WW recommending settings for different yeasts - not really - they go on aboot levels of carbonation is about all. They attempt to match carbonation with style - BJCP version 2008 (because its really different from BJCP 2016)

Cheers

RM

 

[roger mellie]

Also interested in the above, so do we know if the pressure is measured at the 'gas' space of the fermenter, or the liquid end taking into account the small, but perhaps reasonable additional pressure felt by yeasties at the bottom. Thinking this may be important for lagers, or perhaps this can simply be adjusted for based on theoretical calcs...

Definitely measured in the gas space.

Which given the height of the liquid column is < 1M would be very close to the pressure measured at the bottom of the sediment pot - probably 10 kPa different max.

RM

 

[manticle]

Thread pruned.


As wobbly said in one of the posts I hid: 'not sure how many more times it needs to be stated'.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Rude/Lethal

There are 2 pressure control devices.

A simple spring balance type on the top of the unit that is adjusted by a 'thats where I set it last time' number of turns. Next to that is a pressure gauge.

After pitching I open 1.5 turns to the left - that gives ~180 to 200kPa of pressure. Depending on what I am making I will lower the pressure to about 175 kPa (for an APA say) or wind in for 220 kPA if I am doing a wheat/pils. The pressure - even at high Krausen - doesn't change alarmingly fast - so getting it wrong isn't the end of the world.

I can see merit in an solenoid valve pressure release mechanism - but you are dealing with quite small passes (5/16 ID) and small SOVS have a tendency to block up (they don't like moisture). During the ferment - you never hear the CO2 escaping but there is a decent volume of gas produced and at 200kPa makes an audible noise if you release pressure manually and there is the occasional carry over of moisture - I reckon a SOV would block up.

So I figure thats why they went with a spring balance type.

The other benefit of the spring balance type is you can remove it completely and tip starsan down its innids for cleaning.

The other is a PRV that is set at 300kPa - you can't adjust this one.

As far as WW recommending settings for different yeasts - not really - they go on aboot levels of carbonation is about all. They attempt to match carbonation with style - BJCP version 2008 (because its really different from BJCP 2016)

Cheers

RM

Agree solenoid would likely crap out due to moisture etc, however a mass flow controller would do the job admirably and be able to tell you how much co2 it's expelled, that in turn can give you a dead accurate gravity reading if OG is known. Yes I have thought long and hard about building a better cheaper (slightly) WW. Pressure conicals aren't cheap ( now that brewhemoth has gone) glycol chiller(save a further$1000 and use a fridge but limit expansion), MFC, arduino mega, 100-200hrs programing, lots of testing..... done!!!
Probably in the order of $4000 (15gal capable )if you can get your head around the progaming. Though expansion would be cheaper MFC $200 and cost of another conical.
Off the shelf I think only glacia tanks do a rated vessel in HB size(1bbl and less)

So end of the day yes it can be done (in fact has been by an HBT member with a brewhemoth )
Pressure ferment has been around for ages and tested with good results. The same with conicals. Puting the two together was always going to produce a great out come. Think about like this if you compared your process with anyone else using a conical properly, you would perform each process they do but on top of that you've added processes used by those who ferment under pressure.
One power ball just sayin....m

 

[rude]

Rude/Lethal

There are 2 pressure control devices.

A simple spring balance type on the top of the unit that is adjusted by a 'thats where I set it last time' number of turns. Next to that is a pressure gauge.

After pitching I open 1.5 turns to the left - that gives ~180 to 200kPa of pressure. Depending on what I am making I will lower the pressure to about 175 kPa (for an APA say) or wind in for 220 kPA if I am doing a wheat/pils. The pressure - even at high Krausen - doesn't change alarmingly fast - so getting it wrong isn't the end of the world.

I can see merit in an solenoid valve pressure release mechanism - but you are dealing with quite small passes (5/16 ID) and small SOVS have a tendency to block up (they don't like moisture). During the ferment - you never hear the CO2 escaping but there is a decent volume of gas produced and at 200kPa makes an audible noise if you release pressure manually and there is the occasional carry over of moisture - I reckon a SOV would block up.

So I figure thats why they went with a spring balance type.

The other benefit of the spring balance type is you can remove it completely and tip starsan down its innids for cleaning.

The other is a PRV that is set at 300kPa - you can't adjust this one.

As far as WW recommending settings for different yeasts - not really - they go on aboot levels of carbonation is about all. They attempt to match carbonation with style - BJCP version 2008 (because its really different from BJCP 2016)

Cheers

RM

Hey RM you are a gentleman cheers for advice

Sov is a solenoid right ?

Actually a long time ago you inspired me to make my own mill which I still have
but couldnt afford ss rollers but the nickle plated job has worked out alright

I was going to go for the electric solenoid recommended by Trevgale

hey trevgale, any chance you could post some links to the bits and pieces? I'd like to look into this.

cheers,

No worries, these are the main components.

Pressure Controller
Pressure Sensor
Solenoid Valve

The only other components are a 1/4" tee, 1/4" hose barb, hose, gas disconnect, plastic project box from jaycar, power cable and a 1/4" end plug.

When I first put it together I just had the open end of the solenoid valve to release the pressure. However this would release too much pressure due to the ~1sec cycle time. Anyway I put a plug in the end of the solinoid with a 1mm hole drilled in it and this did the trick.

So it's not cheap but it does work perfectly and you can both see the exact pressure it is at and set the desired pressure.


You may have saved me some money if its no good the solenoid he suggests is 1/4"

cheers Lethal rude

 

[rude]

hey MB whats a mass flow controller

 

[rude]

Just googled it MFC now you have done my head in will have a read

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

How accurate is a MFC for $200? Ones we get at work which are reasonably accurate, probably in the range you need to calculate gravity change are in the range more like $4000-7000 depending on size. Burkert branded...

 

[Elz]

lastly..LOL! Anecdotally i would say hop aroma/ flavour is better/less loss occurs, in an environment of brewing under pressure (no O2). It would be interesting to see what the more seasoned brewers would argue re this point of view. Hops being an expensive part of brewing (and many may say lost in the process) may be better utilised being used when brewed under pressure? Who knows.
Cheers
Elz

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Given the WW does not make wort, I assume you are talking about dry hopping.

My understanding is that dry hopping effectiveness is simply around the liquid beers access to the lupulin resin inside the flowers or soaking into the pellets. Unsure the effect pressure would have on this?

 

[Elz]

no I'm talking wort going into the fermentation vessle (brewing under pressure) And dry hopping under pressure. In this environment is their less or more more hop flavour/aroma retained (not specifically to the WW?) compared to more more tradition home brewing techniques?
Cheers
Elz

 

[Markbeer]

Someone will probably remember where, but I recall the only competition I had seen was for WW owners only.

I think the owner of WW advocates the use of a BM for wort, then the WW for fermentation and serving.

Fermenting under pressure, isn't that what proper SS conicals can do?