When To Add The Funk?

[Tony]

Hey all.

Im planning on brewing a saison shortly and i would love to add some extra "funkyness" to it.

I have a vial with the dregs form a bottle of Orval i enjoyed recently and in thinking of using that.

Now........

Ive never done this before........

Do i get the Orval dregs and put them in a starter or add them as they are?

Do i add them at the beginning of ferment or half way or at the end? It will be a super dry Saison using 3724 Belgian Saison so im thinking there wont be much for it to eat at the end.


Im making a starter for some WLP833 for a CAP tomorrow and may keep a bit of that for a jam jar starter for the orval dregs..... what do you think?

Any advice appreciated

cheers

 

[raven19]

I think you will want to add it a few days into ferment, otherwise there will be very little sugar left for the bugs to chew on based on your beer being a dry saison.

Separate plastic for fermenting, racking/bottling once funk is added.

I have dedicated separate vessels for these kind of beers accordingly.

 

[emnpaul]

Zainassheff says 1020 or there abouts in Brewing Classic Styles. Reason being at 1020 there is still enough sweetness to fire the bugs without them going mental and making an overly sour beer. This working it's way up my list of things to do but as yet untried so happy to be corrected.

By no means sure on the starter but my gut feeling is a jam jar size starter would be the way to go.

 

[Charst]

Just listened to the saison show on Basic brewing radio last week and a guest said he added dregs of an orval to his bottling bucket and allowed the brett to get in that way.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr09-01-11saison.mp3


Also if you listen to the Brett Show they discuss using only brett and the effects, according to this the amount of available sugar doesn't completely correspond to the amount of brett character. stressed brett with minimal food seemed to create more "brett" flavour than them having there way with a whole batch.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/bbr05-12-11brett.mp3

Hey all.

Im planning on brewing a saison shortly and i would love to add some extra "funkyness" to it.

I have a vial with the dregs form a bottle of Orval i enjoyed recently and in thinking of using that.

Now........

Ive never done this before........

Do i get the Orval dregs and put them in a starter or add them as they are?

Do i add them at the beginning of ferment or half way or at the end? It will be a super dry Saison using 3724 Belgian Saison so im thinking there wont be much for it to eat at the end.


Im making a starter for some WLP833 for a CAP tomorrow and may keep a bit of that for a jam jar starter for the orval dregs..... what do you think?

Any advice appreciated

cheers

 

[Tony]

Thanks for the replys folks.

I put the dregs in a small starter this arvo...... about 200mls in a jam jar, to see what it does.

I have a fermenter i can name "Brett" and will get some plastic tube from bunnings for racking... im not giving up my silicon tube!

When i opened the vial thats held the Orval dregs..... OMG it smelt good !

If it takes off in the jam jar....... it could be fun to just throw in a batch of beer by its self and see what happens

But i think i will just put it in the Saison when about half done and let it sit in the garage for a coup;e extra weeks.

I will be kegging the beer, not bottling.

Oh crap....... the filter....... may have to drop it in the keg un filtered but i love the shiney bright clean finnish of a filtered beer.

Mmmmm may leave the Brett for something smaller and leave it to sit for a while...... but the question is still when to add it

 

[manticle]

Tony:

Every funky beer I've done* has had the funky yeasts added in secondary with no starter.

Recently I made a belgian golden ale that stalled at 1030, no matter what I tried (rousing, racking, warming, new yeast, fast ferment test etc)

I added the dregs from 2 orval bottles straight to the demijohn and two weeks later it was sitting bright at 1002. Got me some nice comp results too.

My experience suggests brett yeasts are workhorses that will cope with being treated in a way other yeasts won't appreciate, as long as they have something to eat. If your saison is already 1003, they may need some encouragement but even oak chips are encouragement (or fruit or cacao or whatever).

*A few only - most of them take a while

 

[Tony]

mmmm could be a good drying agent for when the Saison just wont go as low as you want....... plus you get to drink Orval....mmmmmm

Drawback...... sacraficed fermenter

 

[bconnery]

mmmm could be a good drying agent for when the Saison just wont go as low as you want....... plus you get to drink Orval....mmmmmm

Drawback...... sacraficed fermenter

THere is no drawback. Surely you've got a couple of fermenters, or at least one, that has seen better days, starting to look a little scratched and rought around the edges?
That's your bug one...
(I have three...)

 

[Tony]

true that!

The orval dregs.... are sitting quite deadish in the bottom of the starter...... but so is the WLP833.

Both have sat in the kegorator for a while.

mmmm if the orval dregs go funky.... how will i know its infected ...... :unsure: