What's your ideal fermentation process?

[Nick JD]

Ha! Yeah totally off topic, but I think people drink lagers becasue they're easier to drink 700 of. Not saying they're bad, but I appreciate beer for complexity of FLAVOUR, not it's ability to make me drunk.

As homebrewers we often find it extremely difficult to believe that most of the world drink beer (megaswill lager) because it's a refreshing, savoury (most other alcohol is sweet) low-alc drink that gets them pissed. They honestly and truly do not want a lot of flavour in their beer.

So we insult the megaswill drinker for their ignorance, when it's out arrogance (founded on a knowledge-base they do not have, or want) where the conflict of interest arises.

And, find me a cork-sniffing, hop-head, brewing legend who can honestly say they didn't spend their years of 15-25 sucking down the very lagers they now abhor and I'll show you someone who's father is a professional brewer.

Jon, I ferment in 20L willow brand jerrys because they fit in my fermenting fridge and are cheap. There, on topic!

 

[Dave70]

It's the best way to make tasteless piss to sell to uneducated and/or uninterested drunkards? :huh:

Not necessarily, actually, not at all. Central Europeans are the biggest per capita piss heads by a country mile, Particularly the Czech's. In my all to brief experience around those part's, larger's were very much the order of the day.
I can assure you, a fresh pulled Pilsner Urquell is about as far from 'tasteless piss' as you can get. They now how to brew it and when to serve it.
Put it on a ship's sweaty hull for a month and 14000ks and you wind up with junkies piss on the shelf of DM's

 

[hsb]

Just make a Kolsch and claim the moral (and yeast) high ground!

The masses is never a very good argument for anything I find but then I'm not like everybody else. :lol:

 

[Nick JD]

Any also, why should all "good" beer be blooming with flavour? Sure,
Boh Pils are probably the most flavoursome of the mild lagers, but a
great German Pils with that grainy/malty/bready pils sweetness and the
floral spiciness of Hallertau et al really shouldn't be a
flavour hit ... should be about subtle refinement ... and they're *******
difficult to make well, 2 months lager or not.

Since I've already derailed this thread, I apologise to being a lager
snob. I even have the pH paper out during the mash now, and you're
damned right for imagining me testing the mash acidity with my pinky
finger out.

I can't imagine not having any lagers in my kegs occasionally. Noble
hops rock - specially CZ Saaz mixed with NZ Hallertau: match made in
lager heaven.

 

[tricache]

"Technically" my ideal fermentation process is one where my STC-1000 doesn't short out and my temp control flies out the window

 

[Byran]

I brew in a 30 litre plastic because it fits in my fridge. Do 1 beer at a time and if im doing ales, 1 goes in at ferment temp for 7 days, then out of the fridge for 7 days, while its out I ferment another one for 7 days in the fridge, then out for 7, the one that's out first goes back in and gets crashed in the fridge till the other one is ready, then kegged. Then repeat. Secondarying ( I just made that up) ales is just a waste of time, the flavour of the yeast helps the beer I reckon.

I have been doing quite a few lagers of late and have tried to get the ferment right, I have found that the best way to check if the primary is done is by taste, not by gravity. If its just a bit sweet then its good to go for a Drest, usually a few degrees higher between 16 and 18 deg C for about 2 or 3 days or until the funky flavours from the sulfur and DMS subsides, by tasting periodically, then lagered down from 10 degC to 4 deg C over about 4 days or until it tastes right.
With Lagers I have been secondary racking onto gelatin, it works super effective at getting the last bit of yeast out of the beers. Only needs a crash chill for a day or two until its crystal clear then I keg.
I dont think lagers need to be "lagered" for ages after fermenting because if you make them right they seem to taste very good right from the fermenter. I have done a few APA's and IPA's with a lager yeast , but because of the minimal esters from the yeast and the high bitterness they seem to benefit from time in the keg to smooth out. (Like a good whiskey). And I must say that all of the beers I have made with a lager yeast turned out better than their ale yeast counterparts. In my opinion ales are just a more flavoursome yeast whereas lagers are a more refined flavoured fermenter which allow the flavours of your malt and hops to shine through. If you go harsh with a lager you cant hide behind esters.............

 

[thermo_47]

Interesting derailment and I welcome the debate, but thanks also to those that are responding about ferment times and fermenters etc. Maybe I'll re-think my snobbery about FIAB or invest in getting some larger Tri-clover clamps sanitary welded into the top of some kegs as fermenters...

On the lager front, I have nothing against them per se, they just don't attract me. True, I drank Tooheys New in my early 20's, but because everyone else around me was. When my now-wife introduced me to Tooheys OLD, I realised that beer could have more than one kind of flavour. That opened up my world and honestly ever since I've been on a magical journey of flavour discovery. Nothing wrong with people who still drink bland lagers or excellent lagers either, it's simply that I want to be punched in the face by my beers pretty much constantly. Maybe I'm young and will grow out of it! I don't go much for subtlety in life.

Working part time at a craft beer bar, I have seen over and over again punters coming in for a generic Corona/XXXX/VB etc and when we don't have it, by giving them a taste of what we DO have on tap, they are 90% of the time converted to some style of craft beer. Perhaps a Pils or Pale ale, but often surprisingly a 9% Imperial Rye Porter or something equally as challenging because it's delicious! I want people to know about the options that I never knew, and make an informed choice about their beverages, not just be led by marketing and the sheep-ish nature of society to just do what everybody else is doing.

And then if they still love the price or flavour or availability or smashability of XXXX or a top notch German Pils, more power to em!

 

[stakka82]

I brew in a 30 litre plastic because it fits in my fridge. Do 1 beer at a time and if im doing ales, 1 goes in at ferment temp for 7 days, then out of the fridge for 7 days, while its out I ferment another one for 7 days in the fridge, then out for 7, the one that's out first goes back in and gets crashed in the fridge till the other one is ready, then kegged. Then repeat. Secondarying ( I just made that up) ales is just a waste of time, the flavour of the yeast helps the beer I reckon.

I have been doing quite a few lagers of late and have tried to get the ferment right, I have found that the best way to check if the primary is done is by taste, not by gravity. If its just a bit sweet then its good to go for a Drest, usually a few degrees higher between 16 and 18 deg C for about 2 or 3 days or until the funky flavours from the sulfur and DMS subsides, by tasting periodically, then lagered down from 10 degC to 4 deg C over about 4 days or until it tastes right.
With Lagers I have been secondary racking onto gelatin, it works super effective at getting the last bit of yeast out of the beers. Only needs a crash chill for a day or two until its crystal clear then I keg.
I dont think lagers need to be "lagered" for ages after fermenting because if you make them right they seem to taste very good right from the fermenter. I have done a few APA's and IPA's with a lager yeast , but because of the minimal esters from the yeast and the high bitterness they seem to benefit from time in the keg to smooth out. (Like a good whiskey). And I must say that all of the beers I have made with a lager yeast turned out better than their ale yeast counterparts. In my opinion ales are just a more flavoursome yeast whereas lagers are a more refined flavoured fermenter which allow the flavours of your malt and hops to shine through. If you go harsh with a lager you cant hide behind esters.............

That is an interesting post and worthy of consideration, and possibly experimentation!