What Happened To My British Cask Yeast?

[caleb]

MONDAY 26th
I made my second batch to use Wyeast. I've been calling it 'Anglo-American Pale Ale' - the idea was to do a super bitter hoppy APA but ferment with a British yeast for a bit more 'character' - Wyeast 1026 British Cask.

I brewed up a batch with Simcoe, plus fresh '08 NZ Cascade flowers - 30g @ 10min, 30g @ 0, and another 30g dry hopped into the fermenter.

I smacked the Wyeast pack 5 hours earlier, but there were NO signs of swelling. I pitched it in anyway, thinking if its going to start slow, it might as well be in the wort. At the same time, I decided to try cultivating some bottle yeast, and rinsed the dregs of three Little Creatures PA into one clean bottle with a bit of sugar, and put some gladwrap on top. This was all Monday night.

WED 28th
36 hours later, nothing! There was a big layer of hops floating on top, but no fermentation. However, my Little Creatures bottle was bubbling away and obviously alive. A few hours later, I decided to pitch in the Little Creatures as well - what the hell... By Wednesday night there were signs of fermentation. (48 hours after beginning).

As an aside, despite all the Cascade, it didn't have that fresh hop hit I wanted - it was just REALLY bitter. So, on Saturday, I infused 15g more Simcoe in boiling water, and added this to the fermenter. Next day it tasted better!

Mon 2nd
So it merrily fermented all week and got down to 1.010 from 1.046.

I bottled it last night. When I got to the bottom, I noticed there is hardly any trub. All I had was a thin layer of VERY liquid yeast, and heaps of hop flowers. Pretty much no "yeast cake" at all. Normally using Safales I get at least an inch of thick solid "raw vegemite" at the bottom. Now, from the description of "British Cask 1026" I expected it to leave a real thick solid cake too. This is described as a feature of this yeast. Yet I had nothing...

So, I have some questions:
1) What really fermented in this batch? 1026 or Little Creatures? From the lack of cake, I suspet it was my rather underpitched LC...
2) What yeast IS in Little Creatures bottles?
3) Is late and dry hopping less effective with fresh flowers than pellets? (They were '08 BTW).

I guess if it was LC that did all the work, I have to call it something else...

 

[drsmurto]

Date on the smack pack?

Activator or propagator?

LCPA has a lager yeast in it for bottle conditioning from memory of past threads altho all my recent bottles of LCPA have been yeast free

 

[caleb]

Date on the smack pack?

Activator or propagator?

LCPA has a lager yeast in it for bottle conditioning from memory of past threads altho all my recent bottles of LCPA have been yeast free

October '08 activator. And I didn't make a starter...

LCPA has a lager yeast! WTF! Maybe I've just made "steam beer" then...

 

[drsmurto]

The activator is designed to be pitched into 19L of wort of OG ~1.050 so thats not a problem.

Being a few months old you didnt give it enough time to fire up.

How did you aerate the wort prior to pitching?

i tend to make starters just so that i can keep aside some 1st gen yeast but even when i pitch the pack without a starter i would always smack it 1-2 days prior to brewing unless the yeast was uber fresh (2 or so weeks form manufacture date).

The LCPA bottle yeast is something that gets debated a bit from time to time. I think the general consensus is that its a lager yeast but as i have never bothered to culture it i don't know.

 

[caleb]

Being a few months old you didnt give it enough time to fire up.

How did you aerate the wort prior to pitching?

...i would always smack it 1-2 days prior to brewing unless the yeast was uber fresh (2 or so weeks form manufacture date).

I just wait for it to cool (kettle in the sink with water) then pour it in vigourously so it froths up a lot.

I hadn't smacked the pack earlier because I wasn't sure I'd even get a chance to brew that day - might have been a week later. I had the time, so I just went for it.

The beer actually tastes OK, but I think I overdid the bitterness. Hopefully it mellow a bit after a rest in the bottles.

 

[cubbie]

I just wait for it to cool (kettle in the sink with water) then pour it in vigourously so it froths up a lot.

I hadn't smacked the pack earlier because I wasn't sure I'd even get a chance to brew that day - might have been a week later. I had the time, so I just went for it.

The beer actually tastes OK, but I think I overdid the bitterness. Hopefully it mellow a bit after a rest in the bottles.

Can also smack the pac and then if it swells and you are not ready throw it in the fridge. Likewise you can create your starter and then is not ready in the fridge it goes.

 

[MarkBastard]

I used a Wyeast irish red ale yeast recently. It did swell up a few hours after smacking. Added it to the wort.

Didn't see hardly any activity in the first two days or so, but after that it ended up fermenting out.

When I cleaned out the fermenter I noticed there wasn't really a yeast cake. There was just a kind of pearly white slush with the consistency of honey. That was after crash chilling for 2 days at about 1 degrees.

So based on my anecdotal evidence I'd say your original yeast worked fine.

 

[reviled]

I did a Pale Ale with 1026 and didnt really like it too much, yeast profile didnt really work with all the hops IMO... 1469 worked alot better...

 

[Effect]

I used a Wyeast irish red ale yeast recently. It did swell up a few hours after smacking. Added it to the wort.

Didn't see hardly any activity in the first two days or so, but after that it ended up fermenting out.

When I cleaned out the fermenter I noticed there wasn't really a yeast cake. There was just a kind of pearly white slush with the consistency of honey. That was after crash chilling for 2 days at about 1 degrees.

So based on my anecdotal evidence I'd say your original yeast worked fine.

I smacked my irish ale yeast, and within 1 hour it was about to burst. 3 hours later I made a 500ml starter with it and pitched after 24 hours. But I had activity the whole time...

I will find out if there is a yeast cake at the bottom as wel...

 

[reviled]

Also, I should add that after my 1st pitch there wasnt a huge yeast cake in my fermenter, but I repitched on it and it worked sweet as!

 

[head]

Just kegged my English IPA that I used 1026 with. It dropped very clear, and when I racked the beer off the trub hardly moved. Tasting out of the fermenter was very clean with a very impressive, clean english ale taste and typical crystal aroma. Have not gassed it up yet. It has joined the keg cue for pole position in the fridge. So far I am happy with this yeast, I just made sure I gave it plenty of time to fire up prior to opening the package and pitching.

By the way, I pitched a porter straight onto the yeast cake.

Cheers,
Head

 

[jimmy01]

Caleb

Had the same problem. with British Cask Yeast last week. I think mine was a Sep 08 date
Activated last weds (28 Feb).
No swelling after 6 hours. Pitched anyway.
36 hours later no activity at all. Ended up pitching a dry yeast.

Had the same problem with a WY1762 Belgium Trappist 11

I have used about a dozen Wyeast Activators so far and had not had a problem until these two. I don't use starters initally but usually take a couple of slants off before pitching the activator pack. Of course I use a starter when using a slant.

Not sure what is going on but am a bit nervous about ordering any more.

Cheers
Jimmy

 

[mika]

Think you guys are a bit eager with your yeast. I've had the odd smack pack that will swell straight up, but usually I've got to wait +12hrs to see a pack swell. And when making a starter from a split, I'll fully expect to wait 12hrs before I see activity in the flagon.
Maybe I'm a bit fastidious, but I always wait to see that my yeast is alive before I start brewing. Given that you're meant to make a starter with a gravity of ~1030-1040, and in seeing that your yeast wasn't healthy, you've pitched it anyway into a wort (guessing) of higher gravity, with a bunch of hops which yeast also don't like, is it really any suprise that the yeast didn't get fired up ?
It's meant to work, I know, and they say that the activator is fine for a direct pitch, I know, and they say that lack of swelling doesn't necessairly indicate that there's a problem with the yeast, I know. But you're not making it very easy on them either. It's not a plug and play software deal.

 

[jimmy01]

Think you guys are a bit eager with your yeast. I've had the odd smack pack that will swell straight up, but usually I've got to wait +12hrs to see a pack swell. And when making a starter from a split, I'll fully expect to wait 12hrs before I see activity in the flagon.
Maybe I'm a bit fastidious, but I always wait to see that my yeast is alive before I start brewing. Given that you're meant to make a starter with a gravity of ~1030-1040, and in seeing that your yeast wasn't healthy, you've pitched it anyway into a wort (guessing) of higher gravity, with a bunch of hops which yeast also don't like, is it really any suprise that the yeast didn't get fired up ?
It's meant to work, I know, and they say that the activator is fine for a direct pitch, I know, and they say that lack of swelling doesn't necessairly indicate that there's a problem with the yeast, I know. But you're not making it very easy on them either. It's not a plug and play software deal.

Hi Mika
You may have a point for the 1762 - this was a high gravity beer. Though not a lot of hops.

However the British Cask Ale was pitched into a 14l English Mild with a SG of 1.033. Not a hoppy beer either.

Perhaps I should not have pitched the yeast when it appeared to be sluggish. But have had this once or twice before with no probs. I have had few probs with pitching an Activator pack directly into the wort. After all that is what they are designed for.

 

[caleb]

Hmmm... it seems the 50 odd Wyeasts are all REALLY different characters and behave differently. Maybe it would behove them to put a bit more info about each yeast on the packet - maybe at least some idea of how long it would take to swell and more importantly how long it would take to commence fermentation. Some seem to be fast while others are really slow.

What still gets me is that they imply this yeast - British Cask - will leave a really firm solid sediment cake, where I actually had the runniest, least 'cakey' cake I've ever seen... really just like very yeasty beer. That's what made me wonder if "little creatures" had taken over...

 

[dr K]

1026 is one of my favorites (with so many quality yeasts to choose from how can you have a single favorite??)
The beers I make with it drop clear.
Now there have been a number of threads recently about dissapointment with liquid yeasts kick off and , horror trmble, talk of pitching a dry yeast over the top..
A quality properly stored and packed dry yest will kick off very very fast cause it packed with "extras", glycogen reserves, treholase etc. Liquid Yeast is not ( I am sure we have all had packs swell even in the fridge, its kicking anyway without the need for extras. Now this brings me to point of yeast nutrients.
Yeast Nutrients, bothe Wyeast and Whitelabs supply there own form of nutrient, in fact WhiteLabs source theirs from a dry yeast producer !! generally they consist of dead inactive yea

 

[dr K]

...mmm type too quick send to soon...
con't
yeast cells, DAP and trace elements, notably Zn which are essential for yeast health. I use the Wyest one and it really does help..perhaps not to volcanic eruptions noted with some dry yeasts but...now yeast nutrient is not a solution to underpitching, still follow the manufacturers pitching instructions just add some nutrient 5 minutes before the end of boil

K

 

[Hophead]

Co-incidentally I am waiting for a 1026 (Sep 08) pack to fire up after 16 hours. Eager to kick off an APA.

Not too stressed yet as have had to wait this length of time in the past. I guess this is one of the advantages of no-chill and storing in a cube.

 

[caleb]

I sampled a glass of this tonight.
:icon_vomit:

Aarrrgh. It's horrible!

I know it's way too young, but I wanted to see how it was progressing.

1) The yeast STILL hasn't cleared - at all!

2) It's acquiring a worse taste - something like the taste that made me tip out the Cascade kit I did earlier. I suspect the Little Creatures starter I made was infected... not suprising really... $#!+ why did I pitch it...

Being so bitter, the taste is masked, but I fear this beer is never going to be the LCPA style APA that I wanted.

I suspect lacto-bateria is contributing the off taste. I gave a small sample to my olifactorily gifted wife to sniff. "What does this remind you of darling?"

Sniff. Sniff. "Mmmm... passionfruits... and ... yogurt... passionfruit yogurt."

Right. Damn.