What Does Finnings Do?

[iluvbeer]

Hi, my brew is nearly finished bubbling, and i have heard of some people using finnings (gelatine). I have no idea on what this does or how it works, so any help would be appreciated. :beer:

 

[domonsura]

Hi iluvbeer, finings are used to take suspended yeast etc out of the finished fermented beer, basically by giving it something to stick to until it's too heavy to stay suspended. If you head to the craftbrewer site (sponsor link above) and have a look for some stuff called 'polyclar' that's the stuff to use (by reputation)

 

[domonsura]

Polyclar or polyvinylpolypyrrolidone (abb. PVPP) is a synthetic finning agent used in beer/wine production to remove chill hazes and unwanted phenols mainly in white wine but sometimes in commercial beer (but use is limited by it's hefty price)

Gelatine is a cheaper option for the home brewer and works to give a bright clear beer. The best way to utilise gelatine is to soften it in cold water (1x 5g sachet in pint of water for 5min), then place in saucepan on a gentle flame until it becomes clear. If you heat gelatine over 70 C it becomes de-natured and its clarification properties are reduced/damaged, so be carefull not to overheat it or let it boil. Then pour the mix into the fermentor and chill 2-5 C for three days. Simple.

P.S. Davis brand gelatine is the good and comes in handy 5g sachets (i dont work for them!) and is heaps cheaper than PVPP and gives a bright clear beer - but Polyclar will work as well.

True, polyclar is a bit more expensive at $9.90 for 90gms, but then it has been designed for brewery use and is Reinheitsgebot approved (if one cares about such things).
I found gelatine to be exorbitantly priced the last time I bought it at $5 for 100gms (from coles), and for some reason I don't like the idea of putting something made from boiled down hooves into my beer. It's also something to consider for those who don't want animal products in the beer (ie: veggos, vegans...)
Each to their own...... Just personal preference for me if I was going to use a finings agent, I'd use polyclar.

 

[iluvbeer]

Thanks, it is giving me more of an understanding of what it does. When i first heard of using gelatine, i thought it would make a beer jelly, not that is a bad thing, but would preffer to drink it.
The only other questons is by finning the beer, does all the yeast get affected and will it affect the primming??

 

[skippy]

iluvbeer, After the fining process is completed there still remains millions of yeast cells in suspension (even though it looks clear to the human eye). Addition of sugar to prime the beer will activate these suspended yeast cells provided temperature of the beer is within the working range of the yeast used. Carbonation will occur with these ideal conditions and will take around 3 weeks for a kit beer using the kits' yeast.

Filtering however can effect the priming process if very fine filters are used <0.5 micron (filters that can remove chill hazes).

 

[MHB]

PVPP (Polyclar is just a trade name) isnt a finning; it chemically binds one of the 2 agents that cause chill haze (polyphenolic compounds) the other half is removed with silica gel.

Fining is another breed of fish entirely.

These are links to 2 articles on the "International Brewers and Distillers" website,
The first explains PVPP, the second Finning.

PVPP and Colloidal Stability

Fining and Clarifying Beer

There are lots of other good articles on the same site; they are at present open to the public.
I fount the tech articles very useful when studying for my GCB, they still provide a great quick reference.

MHB

Link to the list of Tech articles
Training Articles
M

 

[MHB]

When we say Sugar; people think of Sucrose, not one of a family of several million know "Sugars"

If we say Corn; Australians think of Maze, not the seed of any grass crop, whish is a more technically accurate description of what a Corn is.

Finings in brewing are the name given to agents that cause yeast cells to clump and sink faster. Mostly Isinglass, tho some people try to use Hoof Gelatine which is only a fraction as effective.

I am not a wine maker, but I know you guys use lots of stuff we just can't put in beer, and I dont think it's possible to transpose the nomenclature of wine making onto brewing.

In brewing parlance PVPP is a post fermentation treatment/agent, in the same group as Diatomatious Earth, Perlite, Silica Gel and others.

Calling it a fining will just lead to confusion
I get something like 800-1000 people a month through my shop talking about one aspect of brewing or another
If I mean dextrose I dont say Brewing Sugar ("Never Say Sugar" unless they are brewing a Belgian beer)
If I mean Maze I say Corn, and never refer to a Barley Corn - it's correct but causes confusion.

From Brew Science and Practice
Dennis E. Briggs, Chris A. Boulton, Peter A. Brookes and Roger Stevens - pp 1.9

"Substances (finings) may be added to promote yeast separation at the end of fermentation. However, in some modern systems `powdery' yeasts are employed that stay in suspension until the beer is chilled or until collected by centrifugation."

It's best to keep terms as clear and concise as possible.

MHB

And it's the old acronym for:-
Certificate in Brewing - Chilled and Filtered Beers

 

[PostModern]

finning... primming??

Fining. One 'n'. You are making the beer fine by fining, not finned by finning it.

Likewise priming, not primming. It's tough when you learn these terms on the web and end up embarrassing yourself when you pronounce them.

Anyway on the topic of fining, I have rarely found it necessary. I've used fishguts (Isinglass) once with a particularly hazy yeast, but generally I've found that leaving the beer in the fermenter for another week or so after fermentation ceases clarifies it enough for my needs/tastes.

 

[MHB]

So PoMo
I won't need to use finnings in my larger before primming it then.

Seriously I agree, rack and wait, it's cheaper and generally better, but it's good to have the tools for when things go wrong.

MHB

 

[iluvbeer]

Wowww, all this information. I now know more about finnings, thankyou everyone.
Is it worth using it or just bottling as i will be racking of the beer and bulk priming. I will also let the beer sit for a few days after it has finished fermenting with the heater off. (the heater is set for about 19/20deg).

 

[iluvbeer]

Thanks, yes i was starting to get a bit confused with all the information. Thankyou for all your help. By the information everyone have inputed, i wont bother using finnings as it seems to be a waste of time since i am doing the secondary fementation. I hope i dont sound dumb with all these questions, just dont want to make a silly mistake. I think once i have a few brews under my belt , then i will start to play with the brews a little bit more. :beer: :beer: :beer:

 

[wildschwein]

Gelatine is a cheaper option for the home brewer and works to give a bright clear beer. The best way to utilise gelatine is to soften it in cold water (1x 5g sachet in pint of water for 5min), then place in saucepan on a gentle flame until it becomes clear. If you heat gelatine over 70 C it becomes de-natured and its clarification properties are reduced/damaged, so be carefull not to overheat it or let it boil. Then pour the mix into the fermentor and chill 2-5 C for three days. Simple.

P.S. Davis brand gelatine is the good and comes in handy 5g sachets (i dont work for them!) and is heaps cheaper than PVPP and gives a bright clear beer - but Polyclar will work as well.

I completely endorse this methodology. It's exactly the way I do it - soak 5g of supermarket gelatine in cold and then heat to 70C - and the results are very good - the beer takes on a bright clear appearance. I usually add to my fermenter half way through primary fermentation and then bulk prime and bottle.

 

[wildschwein]

Oh right you're close by then - I didn't read your location before.

 

[wildschwein]

Dunno - haven't been to any of the local pubs. With homebrew why would you leave the house?

 

[wildschwein]

To remind yourself how good or bad your beer might be!! The pub in the John Forrest national park is good - a little rustic though, but you can be guaranteed to get home safely, going through Hovea and Parkerville!

P.S. Saw the Targa west on Friday going through the national park... investigating after my arvo kip was destroyed by the sound of the hoons roaring around!

Yeah, I'd go if someone else paid. Otherwise I think I'd spend my money on Coopers longnecks @ the bottlo to get the best HBing bottles around (after Grolsches maybe). The contents are quite drinkable too.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Hi, my brew is nearly finished bubbling, and i have heard of some people using finnings (gelatine). I have no idea on what this does or how it works, so any help would be appreciated. :beer:

When I first started using additives and finnings I was taught these two rules. Any product sold as a finning is designed to take something out, and any product regarded as an additive is designed to "add" something to your wine or beer

BYB

 

[dr K]

Gelatine does a remarkably good job as a fining agent.
I used it often before I started filtering and in fact find that I still use it even with filtering for a really crisp look.
The critical points are:
Dissolve it completely in warm (no higher than 70C) as has been mentioned earlier.
Make sure, before you pitch the finings that your beer is cold (sub-zero, say -0.5C), this is also important if you are filtering as you want to filter out not just most of the yeast but the particles that cause chill haze.

K

 

[iluvbeer]

MHB:

"Substances (finings) may be added to promote yeast separation at the end of fermentation. However, in some modern systems `powdery' yeasts are employed that stay in suspension until the beer is chilled or until collected by centrifugation."

Anything that stabilizes beer/wine is classified as a fining agent. Check with your lecturer... The quote mentioned is abstract.
No offence, might want to upgrade your cert. from Ghana Commercial Bank -
to a diploma, or masterbrewer, or even a reputable university science degree (if you are game) and then, and only then hold an eductated conversation on fining?

Keeping it real, the original post was for a guy new to brewing wanting to know how to use gelatine as a fining agent and I think that his question has been answered. I dont think he would be to bothered about the pros and cons of definitions about finings and additives or PVPP etc - no disrespect, the man's using kit wort/bottles - not working in a commercial brewery.

iluvbeer...i think if you are bottling beer with secondary ferment occuring in the bottle, finings are a waste of time as you will get sediment occuring as a result of priming the bottle with sugar in the first place - just let the fermentor sit for a few days (3 days will work) in a cool place before priming and bottling - and let nature take it's cause. When carbonated (around 3 weeks if in warm environment), Chill then Decant into large glass or even a jug with one single pour (to avoid agitating sediment) and enjoy.


Thankyou for your help, i will take your advise. I really do appreciate all the help, as i am new to this and dont want to make a silly mistake.