Wet vs dry hopping.

[Dave70]

Hopefully I'll harvest enough cascade and Chinook to knock out a batch or two this year. Not some mouth puckering IIPA, more kind of house ale.
The idea was to use the hops wet, a la, SN Harvest ale. But many opinions seem to point towards wet hops imparting a somewhat 'grassy' flavor. A characteristic I cant stand.
After waiting so long, I hate to produce a batch of fizzy lawn clipping juice.
Anybody had some experience in this area?

 

[hoppy2B]

I think wet hops give a higher IBU because the lupulin hasn't dried and gone hard, if that is an appropriate description. So being softer it is more easily isomerized. I haven't noticed any grassiness but I don't have massive amounts of experience to say for sure.

Interestingly, I picked my first hops today. I'm planning a harvest ale in the morning. I have a mixture of Cluster, Cascade and POR.

 

[fcmcg]

So most people will tell you to use something that you know the aa for bittering...
Use your fresh hops for flavour and aroma..afaik

 

[Dave70]

I think wet hops give a higher IBU because the lupulin hasn't dried and gone hard, if that is an appropriate description. So being softer it is more easily isomerized. I haven't noticed any grassiness but I don't have massive amounts of experience to say for sure.

Interestingly, I picked my first hops today. I'm planning a harvest ale in the morning. I have a mixture of Cluster, Cascade and POR.

Eagerly awaiting results.
Actually my cascade have basically burs at the bottom and almost fully developed cones at the top. The blistering heat really gave them a touch up, so who knows.

So most people will tell you to use something that you know the aa for bittering...
Use your fresh hops for flavour and aroma..afaik

I'd planned on doing this in any case if for no other reason than loosing a whole bunch of precious wort to soggy hops.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

loosing a whole bunch of precious wort to soggy hops.

I'd have thought you would lose less wort with wet hops as opposed to dry (flowers not pellets).

 

[manticle]

I think wet hops give a higher IBU because the lupulin hasn't dried and gone hard, if that is an appropriate description. So being softer it is more easily isomerized.

Is this based on anything or a self developed hypothesis?

 

[Tilt]

Last year was my first doing a hop harvest ale so take this as an observation rather than a true experiment or tried and tested summation of years of brewing with fresh hops.
I used my standard house pale ale recipe (pale, carapils, caramalt, touch of munich) and 100g of dried homegrown NZ Cascade at 10 mins and 300g of the same hops wet at flameout.
To back up the unknown element of the fresh hops I bittered to 20IBU with Pacific Jade and added 10g of Galaxy at 10 and 0min.
This ended up in a very tasty and unique flavoured beer that was unlike anything commercial I've tried. For that reason alone I'll be doing the same again with my homegrown hops this year.
There was a definite grassy freshness (more like cut hay than lawn clippings) and light lemony citrus. The grassiness wasn't dense and tannic like some overly late/dry hopped beers I've had. So to my palate the fresh flavours and aromas were pleasant and complimentary to a tasty late summer beer rather than full on overbearing.
I reckon brewing with wet hops is a bit of a luxury many don't have access to (similar to cooking with homegrown fruit and veg,) so I embrace the differences for the one or two beers I can manage with them per year.

 

[Dave70]

I'd have thought you would lose less wort with wet hops as opposed to dry (flowers not pellets).

Apparently the moisture content is around the 70 - 80% mark for wet hops and ideally around the 5 -10% mark dry so yeah, the difference may be profound.
I wouldn't have guess that to be honest. They feel pretty dry (ish) to me when they're ready to pluck.

 

[mckenry]

Hopefully I'll harvest enough cascade and Chinook to knock out a batch or two this year. Not some mouth puckering IIPA, more kind of house ale.
The idea was to use the hops wet, a la, SN Harvest ale. But many opinions seem to point towards wet hops imparting a somewhat 'grassy' flavor. A characteristic I cant stand.
After waiting so long, I hate to produce a batch of fizzy lawn clipping juice.
Anybody had some experience in this area?

Dave70,
I did almost exactly what you're planning 3 years ago. Wet hops, late in the boil / flame out gave me grass. (I also get grass from dry hops in the keg - maybe I'm sensitive to it). I dried them on a fly screen in the garage from then on and no grass. I still do it for the interest, but find they're not as aromatic as the shop bought equivalent. Taste is on a par to me. Still, good fun and good beer. Thats what its all about.

Edit - I grow Cascade and Chinook too

 

[Yob]

to not get the grassy hit from fresh hops, you will need to keep them dark for a day or two to let the chlorophyll 'out', for want of a better word, a box is a good way, will still retain moisture but the chlorophyll will dissipate, keep warm, give them a turn every few hours to let them breathe. Please dont ask me to explain how I know this :lol: but trust me, chlorophyll will dissipate with time leaving nice tasting smelling buds cones.. actually cones is right, fresh smelling cones.


When you pick a fresh Hop Cone and squeeze it, you will note the "fresh grassy hint" this will go as the cone dries, if you dont like that smell from the fresh cone (chuck a few in a glass or jug of beer and poke it about for a while) then fresh hopping isnt for you, try it again with a half dry cone, Like it better? then use at this stage, repeat until you get the desired effect and use at that point... take notes..



@ Manticle, a similar discussion >HERE< where the same theory is noted... does not seem to be backed up with any links or data.

 

[manticle]

Hoppy: There are other bittering compounds in hops besides alpha acids. Alpha acids are measured in IBU/BU - it is quite possible you are noticing the bittering effect of other compounds more prevalent in wet hops. Isomerisation of alpha acid has nothing to do with whether or not the hops are dried as far as I know and I'd be interested in any information to the contrary.

Dave: One obvious difference you will have no doubt factored in is weight will be significantly more in wet hops per flower but that will be due to water content. More weight required to get the same 'hit'.

In my very unsuccessful hop growing days, I added frozen wet hops directly to a couple of brews - usually as a 0 minute addition. No dry hopping from memory but I never got significant grass (which I don't care for either). Very limited experience but it seems to be all the rage in the US.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Hoppy: There are other bittering compounds in hops besides alpha acids. Alpha acids are measured in IBU/BU - it is quite possible you are noticing the bittering effect of other compounds more prevalent in wet hops.

kind of off topic: I found this out when I generously dry hopped a keg with wai-iti (~3%AA) and it went bitter as fck. A kind of lemon juice bitterness.

 

[Dave70]

kind of off topic:

..reported..

 

[hoppy2B]

Hoppy: There are other bittering compounds in hops besides alpha acids. Alpha acids are measured in IBU/BU - it is quite possible you are noticing the bittering effect of other compounds more prevalent in wet hops. Isomerisation of alpha acid has nothing to do with whether or not the hops are dried as far as I know and I'd be interested in any information to the contrary.

Yeah its probably a combination of various factors.

They have a stronger flavour over the dry weight equivalent. Describing the flavour as fresher is probable the way to go. Its like comparing a dry piece of fruit to a fresh piece. Have you ever eaten a piece of dry apple, nothing like a fresh one, and reconstituting the moisture content back to the dry apple doesn't return it to the same flavour.

I was basing my theory on the effect of drying the resins and oils in hops on various other oils and resins in nature that go hard when dried.

Grassy flavours tend to age out a bit as far as I am aware.

 

[mckenry]

resurrecting and old post. You'll notice I posted above. Well I did this again, but only in the whirlpool and with a lot less hops, trying to see whether I could avoid the grass and get flavour alone.
Problem was, the beer was infected. Cider smell and taste, so the likely culprit was aceto. A quick look around the interweb and I cant find anything other than anecdotal evidence that fresh cones can carry this.
I am trying to work out where the infection came from and want to know one way or another whether this could be a culprit. Does anyone know for sure if fresh off the bine hops carry infection risks? I would have thought in the whirlpool at ~80° would kill it off but thats just a guess too.
I have done wet hopping like this before and although the beer was grassy it wasnt infected. Maybe I just got lucky then.

 

[jphowman]

IIRC someone one the BN mentioned that Matt Brynildson plated out some dried hops to see if they would infect his brews during dry hopping. None of the bugs were considered beer spoilage organisms.