Weizen doppelbock recipe

[crazywalrus]

Hi Guys

I have been all grain brewing for a few years now. I have been given the task to produce some beers for mates Oktoberfest. I know I can make the usual lagers and Hefs but I want to make up a few different brews as well. I have had a bit of a look around but there does not seem to be any recipes for a weizendoppelbock. After reading a bit about the style this is the starting recipe I have come up with. I would appreciate any feedback.

27 Litre brew 65 degree mash

3.00kg Wheat Malt
2.00kg Vienna Malt
2.50kg Pale malt
0.75kg Melanoidin
0.50kg Munich Dark
0.45kg Carafa Special III
0.25kg Crystal

Hallertau hops 6.5% 40grams 60mins
Hallertau Hops 6.5% 15grams 15mins

Est OG 1.079
IBUs 23.6
Colour 58.9
Est ABV 7.3%

18 degrees fermentation temp

Hef Yeast - not set on a yeast as I have not been happy with the wyeast 3068 lately. The Safale wheat yeast has been more productive for me recently.

Thanks in advance - Ted

 

[Velu]

Hi Crazy,
I've made a couple of weizenbocks, roughly 50% wheat, 45% Munich, 5% special B. They always tasted like too much special B at the start (raisin-y) and too much fusal alcohol. But both dissipated with time. Don't be scared of simple sugar and higher ferment temps.
Cheers

 

[crazywalrus]

Hi Kit Master

Thanks for the reply. Would you recommend a Ferment Temp of around 22 degrees?

Thanks CW

 

[Adr_0]

I think this is perfect:

Hallertau hops 6.5% 40grams 60mins
Hallertau Hops 6.5% 15grams 15mins

Est OG 1.079
IBUs 23.6
Colour 58.9
Est ABV 7.3%

The recipe in the wheat beers book has only Munich II and pale wheat, but is decocted so might end up in the mid 20's. It is apparently ok but to me seems too simple. I think that the recipe you have above doesn't quite have the right mix, for e.g. 4-5% Carafa III is technically a bit much for the style.

The below might work:

4.00kg Pale Wheat Malt
4.00kg Dark Munich
0.75kg Melanoidin
0.75kg Cara-aroma

I would do a rest at 44°C if you can for 10-20min to try and lift out a bit more clove in the aroma and flavour, as it really suits the style.

Yeast wise, 3068 would be a pretty good pick to be honest. If you don't like it 3638 would be another good one to try.

 

[Velu]

Hi CW,
The last one I started the ferment around 17, then ramped up after a few days to the low 20's. I was trying to get less banana from the yeast, but after having a few weizenbocks in Germany I think I like a little bit of the banana, so next time will start at 19 and ramp up from there. It took a few months for the flavours to settle for me, but mine was 8.7% abv.
Cheers

 

[Adr_0]

Sorry, I should add than if you do want a colour darker than that I have above, chuck in some Carafa Sp 1. Should not use more than a couple of % IMO.

 

[crazywalrus]

Hi Gear Bod

Thanks for the reply. I have done a bit of reading tonight and your suggestions make a lot of sense. Your suggestions give me around the colour I was looking for.

Est OG 1.079
IBUs 23.5
Colour 50.5
Est ABV 7.3%

I think I will run with this and see how it goes. I am sure it will make a good beer.

When you use 3068 what temp do you ferment at? I have to admit the previous issues I had with it probably relate to no temperature control. This is all sorted now and my beer is a lot better for it.

Thanks again for your feedback guys

@ Kit Master - thanks I might have a play around with Temps when I do not have so many brews on the run at once.

Cheers CW

 

[Adr_0]

No temp control might have done it. Most people go 17-18°C with good results.

On looking at it again, the cara-aroma couldn't be dropped to about 5%. It sometimes helps to lift it a bit higher when competing against roasted malts, but it should stand out well enough at 5% and is more of an extra addition to a beer like this rather than a primary component (like dark Munich and wheat).

By the way, the Kit Master/Partial Brewer are just an indicator of how's many posts someone has made. People's names are just above this

 

[crazywalrus]

Thanks Adrian

Oops - First posts will get it right this time.

Thanks CW

 

[Alex.Tas]

I made one a few days ago too.

The basic principles I apply to making wheat beers are to determine what flavours I want, and realising that probably the biggest factor is the yeast. Providing the right building blocks for the yeast, pitching the correct amount and fermenting at the correct temperature. Note: when i use the word correct, i mean correct to your intended flavour profile.

Mash schedule: To get the max potential clove-iness you should be incorporating a ferulic acid rest. as Adro suggests above, 44*C. you will get some cloves without it though.
Pitch rate: use a yeast calculator. determine what you should be pitching for an ale. If you want more banana then pitch less yeast. I typically go for around 70% of the suggested ale quantity for the given gravity of the brew.
Fermentation temp: Higher = more flavour generally. also higher gives you more off flavours and nasty alcoholic notes.
Yeast selection: something I've only just started to get into. I've only used 3068 in the past (except for a couple of extracts with WB06) and have been happy with the results. I've recently got a vial of WLP380 for my weizenbock and intend on doing a side by side split batch later on controlling the variables noted above for a regular gravity weizen, using WLP380/Wyeast3068.

Not too sure how appropriate style wise they are, but I like to use first wort hop editions for my german wheats.

 

[crazywalrus]

Thanks Alex for the info

I kegged and bottled the brew a few days ago. I am pretty happy with the beer however I am getting more Wheat/Weizen flavours than doppelbock flavours however it is a great beer. May need to have a play around with the recipe a bit and give it another go.

I only have a simple setup presently so I am currently only able to have a two step Mash. I am pretty sure I will get a Herms setup shortly which will allow more steps in the Mash.

 

[Adr_0]

The banana/fruit should fade in a few weeks and months, and the malts all will come through more.

What sort of doppelbock flavours are you missing?